Somthing went on the topend!!

[manyfire]

Had to go get my kid, when pulling out of daycare the motor had three power lags, almost like it was running out of fuel, then started clanking upon acceleration, not tapping, now it sounds like it is missing and running like shit. But I have been fighting with a rocker arm ticking when cold lately, then still a little noisy upon acceleration. I am thinking that it either flattened an lifter, popped the gasket between 5/7, or the cam finally flattened out. At work now so I have to get it home in the morning, take it really easy. May get that bigger cam afterall, maybe those vortecs!! We'll find out tomorrow,I think the motor is pissed because I put all of that work in the body and havent tinkered with it all summer.:icon_mad: What a way to start the winter, if it is to bad I will just park it and get a car for the winter, :s19::cry:

[Melonhead]

Gene, that don't sound so good. I hope for the best and you let us know the outcome.

[manyfire]

i will, compression test first thing tomorrow, see what that shows, go from there

[Melonhead]

Good starting point.

[OTHCUSTOMS]

what kind of cam do u have? solid lift, roller? is there blow by? sorry to hear about your issue. welcome to my club of broken motors. lol

[spacecadet]

I would definley suggest doing a compression test. The last one that I had that did that ate an exhaust valve about an hour after it lost power and started to miss.

Space

[XTEN]

Sorry to hear that Many.First thing I'd do is take valve covers off and crank it over and/or fire it.You might get lucky.See what is or isnt moving.Maybe a rocker nut backed off.Ive had pushrods go through stamped steel rockers.You might be able to figure it out in a matter of seconds.

[Scotty_S-15]

................................. Maybe a rocker nut backed off.Ive had pushrods go through stamped steel rockers.You might be able to figure it out in a matter of seconds.
Or, along the same lines, popped out a rocker stud, if it was a pressed in stud.
.
.

[85SS]

Sorry to hear that Many, Good luck with getting it fixed. Keep us informed.

[manyfire]

gotta wait till this afternoon when the kid naps, she is in full terror mode, Hoping it is somthing simple like a loose rocker arm, it was vibrating pretty bad on the way home, the sound is definately topend, almost sounds like the pushrod hitting the valve cover, thinking either the rocker arm came loose, or it blew threw, its all speculation until I take it apart, there is no smoke at all so if the gasket popped it was between cylinders, burnt almost a quarter tank of gas driving 8 miles home, just hope for once it is cheap,trying to save money for kids christmas!!

btw everything is solid, no rollers, if I got to rebuild it, everything will be roller

[manyfire]

pulled the valve covers off, everything is moving fine, nothing is loose, if you can get past the exhaust squeek here is a video, when the motor started running rough it loosened the pipe by the tranny crossmember(ubolt for quick disassembly) the sound is comming from6/8 area, only when you put the throttle back some, havnt compression test yet, not going to get to it today, kinda hard to hear on the video, clost to end
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IqAaOn1Dkn8

[manyfire]

thinking 6/8 headgasket, didnt realize the mic on the camera couldnt take the noise

[Scotty_S-15]

First thing I'd do was put the valve cover back on the driver's side..... so as not to make a friggin' mess. One side at a time.;)

But sometimes something amiss in the valvetrain is hard to see. I'd let it cool down. Then start it up, and keep a finger on one rocker at a time in the vicinity of 6 & 8, you might "feel" that clack. Yeah, definitely a loud clack.

Good Luck with that.... might be something easily remedied........
.
.

[manyfire]

my neighbor came out and asked if they should call the fire dept, lol, I usually only do one at a time, was just having a hard time determining where it was comming from. got tired of pulling and putting them back on, got irritating, never got the chance to do the compression test today. What would cause that clack, a bad lifter? none of the push rods are bent, they are all spinning during operation, the valves are adjusted right, I ensured that today and all of them responded to being tightened(engine bog), kinda stumped, its going to stay parked until I get it figured out.

[badtoad]

Take a close look at the valve springs . Ive hade the same symptoms on my x drag car and found a broaken spring , took a while just to see it but when i did i was like how in the hell .

[manyfire]

providing the head gasket is not blown a valve is not bent, then I would just buy new heads, I am looking at this kit, if I have a bad spring, I will just replace them all, this kit will give me a new cam, springs, valve seals, retainers, and lifters.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/COMP-CAMS-MAGNUM-HYD-CAM-LIFTER-SPRING-KIT-SB-CHEVY_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem45eec6b91eQQitemZ 300358744350QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAc cessories

[adh383]

Along with a possible head gasket blown-- that knock in your video sounds like piston issues-cracked piston , wristpin---etc. good luck

[85SS]

Doesnt sound good whatever it is. I had a similar problem once. Had a 355 slightly built and it started to knock kinda like that. I thought the same as you that I was maybe a spring, lifter, head gasket, or something else in that area. After about a week of looking and testing things we decided to pull it out and check the bottom end. Once we got it out and was getting it ready to put on the stand we found the problem. FLEX PLATE! Had a crack from one of the bigger holes all the way to the center.
Good luck with it Many. You will get it fixed.

[badtoad]

Sadly if you cant see the problem then a tear down is necessary . Been there done that = sucks .

[355V8S10Tahoe]

Wow! What a horrible sounding video, it's like the death of a close friend to me, sorry to hear of the problem your having many... I hate to say it but I have to agree with badtoad... If it were me I would have also never driven it 8 miles back home nor rev it up like that in a video, it can only make it worse... I would just pull the heads and see what's going on in there if you can't see it in the upper valve train components, you could have slight contact between a piston and two valves in the overlap stroke indicating a spun rod bearing but I don't think that would have lasted for 8 miles back home and a video if that was it...

Good luck Many, hope you find it's not that bad and an easy fix...

[BigMean]

Dam Shame Gene! You have my luck for the sounds of it!
Tare the heads off, something isn't moving freely. I had a lifter on my 383 in my ELky that didn't spin in the bore right.
How many miles you have on the old girl?

Think positive dude

Justin

[manyfire]

been driving it since 2004 i think, the guy had it freshly rebuilt and dynoed right before I bought it, has ran awesome, I really hope its not the bottom end, I dont mind tearing apart the top, I just hate pulling the motor, when I left work it didnt sound that bad, just a little gutless with a slight noise you really couldnt hear that bad in the cab over the exhaust, if the piston was cracked it would be smoking right? ill hit it with the compression test tomorrow, hopefully that will be good news, well I have been needing to change out the rear main for a while, small leak. May just yank it and do the whole shabang.

[Rusty]

that sounds a bit like my second engine, it had a spun bearing in #1 and #8, though my first engine had a piston knock sound i never figured out... i tore it apart and there was nothing wrong... I still can't explain it

[manyfire]

you guys are just full of rays of sunshine, lol, well will find out tomorrow,:s19: do the compression test then if that doesnt show anything it starts comming apart. Wish I had the cash to just order one of those nice crate drop in's:cry:, you all know the ones, 400+ hp, would have never associated it with bearings on the bottom, but thinking about could see how it could be. :wtf: Its the holidays who wants to rebuild a motor, if I am going to pull it I am going to rebuild it, that is a spring thing so you can run the track afterwords.

[manyfire]

that sounds a bit like my second engine, it had a spun bearing in #1 and #8, though my first engine had a piston knock sound i never figured out... i tore it apart and there was nothing wrong... I still can't explain it
when you tore it apart did you fix it by accident?

[bigrond]

a little hard to tell but likely a spun bearing from what i could hear .power loss was probably the bearing getting a death grip on the crank and then slipping away .i guess we wont know till you pull it .good luck i hope its not a costly fix

[badtoad]

hey Many ....Dont feel bad casue i mite half to rip my big block back out . This thing is cranking like it has a dead battery , im thinking a spun bearing or i killed the starter already . So i feel you pain but atleast you got to drive the thing !

[manyfire]

I was looking, if it is a bearing I could drop the pan and replace in the truck until spring, this is thanks to having the 4wd chassis converted, getting ready to go do the compression test now, just hope for good compression!!!!!!

[Melonhead]

Let us know Gene!!

[Scotty_S-15]

With any luck, you're working on it as we speak..........
But in my opinion, I'd be more inclined to guess it's something on the top end because:
* Your original complaint of it running like crap, etc. Generally, a rod won't hurt performance..... until it's hanging outside the block!
* That "clack" sounds a little too "tinny" to be a rod. A rod knock usually sounds a little deeper. But then again, your video wasn't done in a sound studio...... :icon_smile:
.
So lets hope it's in the top end..... for your sake.;)
.
.

[manyfire]

head gasket between 4/6, soon as I put the tester in 4 and had the kid crank it, hissed out 6 no pressure, also found a little oil build up on #3, being it isn't smoking guessing the valve seal causing that, fix, gotta pull the heads anyhow, so I will just replace the valve seals, so, I may as well throw in a new cam huh? give it a little more bottom end!!!! Noticed the cylinder pressure is down about 15-20 psi in the five yeas of service, throw in the cam, lifters, valve seals and head gaskets, what the old lady doesn't know isn't wrong wont hurt her!!!

[Melonhead]

And if she does find out. Tell her it it was still way cheaper than replacing the engine..

[355V8S10Tahoe]

Hey Many, that's great news if that's all it was, didn't you have a blown head gasket issue before? I think you better check the straitness of the deck and heads or maybe make sure its torqued down properly... I'm also wondering if all those hot and cold times that engine saw loosened it up a bit, a re-torque wouldn't be a bad idea, I know your not supposed to have to do that on a SB but I do sometimes after it gets hot a few times... The engine in my truck was built and broke in by me in a previous 81 GMC full size and had some slight seepage of coolant when hot from the water jacket area of both head gaskets, I pulled the engine and sold the truck after 1000 miles or so and it sat in my garage for about 3 years till I found my 87 S10 long bed, I re-torqued the heads when I was getting it ready to go in and it hasn't leaked since...

Hope everything goes well with the repair... :hammer:

[Scotty_S-15]

Hey, that IS good news!
How often is it that having a blown gasket is GOOD news?
Like Tahoe said, providing that's all it was, then its all good.;)
.
.

[BigMean]

And if she does find out. Tell her it it was still way cheaper than replacing the engine..

Amen! LOL! And its still very true! :naughty:

[manyfire]

it was 3-5 that popped last time, about 3-4 years ago, I only replaced the one because the compression was so good, talked to the guy that built the motor and used the same gasket. this time I am going to do both, buy a good high preformance gasket, you know one of those the whole engine will melt and blow up before they go. Knew I should have done them both, but then I wouldnt have a excuse to put in a new cam now would would I, been talking about that for a couple of years.

[thequack]

good luck, I suggest the compression test too, then pray for the best
good luck

[XTEN]

Its all good news,Many.Now you can do the improvements you want,just a little sooner!Be great to have it for ski season,and improve performance,too!Just be a little more of a challange(or fun) in the snow!lol

[manyfire]

oh yeah, more power at takeoff, she will slide around real good!!!!

[manyfire]

I have the center bolt pre vortec heads and one of the valve cover bolts is broken flush with the head, gotta pull the head to change the gasket so that is not a problem, whats the best way to get it out, I am going to change out the valve seals and springs, so they will be out of the way.
I have also been looking at the head studs instead of the head bolts, anybody used them, some say that they distribute the pressure a little better than the bolts, being the second head gasket on this thing, even though it was the other side, just lookin at ways to improve, maybe the guy that originally built it just didn't torque them all the way.

I am going to have the heads decked, or at least if I can afford to I will.

[XTEN]

You will never get that bolt out! It is impossible! you must buy Vortec heads!JK,many.You could try the Stroker "crackpipe"method if it has locktite on it.If not,the first thing to try would be to centerpunch it off-center,and try to tap it out with a pointy center punch counter-clockwise.Dont forget the concentration face,tongue out the side of the mouth,squint,maybe close one eye.lolGood luck,Many.I hope it aint bottomed out.

[manyfire]

seems like I just read this method about a oil pump bolt, believe me if I could afford the vortecs I would, the cam set I am trying to decide which one of the two I can afford, believe me there are several others I would rather have, tried to post the link but I cant copy it for some reason.

#1 1200-5200 rpm 256 int/269 exh, valve lift .449int/ 456 exh, 110deg lobe
includes timing assy, valve springs, valve seals, retainers, lifters
#2 1500-5500 rpm 262int/270 exh, valve lift .464int /.470exh, 114 deg lobe
includes timing assy, valve springs, valve seals, retainers, lifters

Both are COMP cams

my compression now is 170 per cylinder, after the heads guessing they will be back up around 180-190, was at 190 4-5 years ago.
torque converter is a 3500 stall, 3.73's in the rear

edlebrock 600 cfm carb, edlebrock preformer intake, patriot headers,
got a guy that will machine the surface, wash, replace the guides if needed, and replace the seals for 125, said if I wanted to take 30 off he would for a total of 200, that includes the wash and etc. anything more than that charge by cylinder.
my buddy was saying the 114 lobe was a little much without spray, what do you think?

[XTEN]

Just kidding about the Vortecs,Many.What cam is in your truck now?Yep,same as oil pump bolt.I'd try that first.It works.Id choose#2.Obviously work a little better with converter.Wider lsa will spread the power band.You wont have any problem spinning it to 5500rpm.Which one would you rather go with?Whats your gut feeling on this?

[manyfire]

i dont know what is in it, mild idle, dont think it is much above stock, want to go rougher to give it the low torque and power,
just looking at 290in/ex, 465 int/ex val lift, and 112 lobe rpm range 1800-5800,
dont want to go to low end, want a good takeoff which seems to be my problem, and a moderate top, only going to run 1/8, dont run over 70 on the highway, cost to much!!

[chris1972]

seems like I just read this method about a oil pump bolt, believe me if I could afford the vortecs I would, the cam set I am trying to decide which one of the two I can afford, believe me there are several others I would rather have, tried to post the link but I cant copy it for some reason.

#1 1200-5200 rpm 256 int/269 exh, valve lift .449int/ 456 exh, 110deg lobe
includes timing assy, valve springs, valve seals, retainers, lifters
#2 1500-5500 rpm 262int/270 exh, valve lift .464int /.470exh, 114 deg lobe
includes timing assy, valve springs, valve seals, retainers, lifters

Both are COMP cams

my compression now is 170 per cylinder, after the heads guessing they will be back up around 180-190, was at 190 4-5 years ago.
torque converter is a 3500 stall, 3.73's in the rear

edlebrock 600 cfm carb, edlebrock preformer intake, patriot headers,
got a guy that will machine the surface, wash, replace the guides if needed, and replace the seals for 125, said if I wanted to take 30 off he would for a total of 200, that includes the wash and etc. anything more than that charge by cylinder.
my buddy was saying the 114 lobe was a little much without spray, what do you think?

the vortec has allready a small chambers (64cc) if you have flat piston be around 9.5 to 1 good with todays gas...with the cams you pick that all you want ..

[chris1972]

the heads usely don't need guides but check them for cracks..if you where on my side of the state i would do them for 75 ..chris

[manyfire]

got teardrop pistons, think that is what they are called, got the four "eyes" in them, pic in my photo gallery from last headgasket pop.

[Melonhead]

Yeah, those pistons look like the generic 6cc dish flat tops. This will help with calculating the CR. Do you know if the block has ever been decked? The thing to remember with the Vortec heads are the 64cc chambers. This increase the CR if your old heads were larger. Going with a torquey cam will increase Dynamic and can cause pinging. Just something to make you aware.

[manyfire]

yeah I really dont want to increase the cr any, I dont want to have to run premium fuel all the time. Going to stay with the same heads, they have been good to me. I think I am going to order the last cam listed on thursday. Then the begining of the year the new ignition to go with it. Cant wait to hit the track next year.

Back to the studs or bolts, nobody commented on it. Gonna start buying stuff this week so I want to have a plan.

[XTEN]

Whats a bolt but a stud with a head on it?Some say bolts stretch.I say buy good bolts and re-torque them.jmo.Had a bbc with studded heads.We went 15 rounds trying to get them off while the motor was still in the car.That was enough for me.Speaking of studs,do your heads have screw-in studs?

[manyfire]

Whats a bolt but a stud with a head on it?Some say bolts stretch.I say buy good bolts and re-torque them.jmo.Had a bbc with studded heads.We went 15 rounds trying to get them off while the motor was still in the car.That was enough for me.Speaking of studs,do your heads have screw-in studs?

never tried to take them out, looked and didnt see any threads on the bottom, pretty sure that they are pressed.

I have always used bolts before, I could see where the studs would make it a pain to get the heads off, just stick with what I know.

[manyfire]

OK I think I got it, the cam and spring setup.
Power Range Idle 1800-6000 RPM Strong mid-range torque, Needs 2200+ stall
Int/Exh 490/490
Duration Adv. Int/Exh in degrees 292/300
Duration @.050 Int/Exh in degrees232/234
Lobe Centerline 108

Or is this a little light for street/strip

[Melonhead]

Not bad. It will be well suited with the gears that you already have.;)

[manyfire]

thanks kent, ordering it tomorrow, then sending the heads out after I get it in.

[manyfire]

will it have a good lope at idle

[Melonhead]

It will be noticeable, but not extreme. The 108 LSA will have your engine wanting to idle at about 800 or more. The lower the idle the more noticeable the lope will be. You will have to get the stall converter to allow the engine to have less drag on it to idle lower.;)

[manyfire]

I dont know what you mean, about the stall converter, are you talking about torque converter stall rpm,
btw I just pulled the electric pusher fan, grill, flex fan and rad of the front, about a hour, takin it slow, dont really want to open the motor until I can send the heads out be a week or two.

All the wiring for the pusher fan was cooked, the fuse block had melted and fused together, this was a 30 amp circuit, the fan and relay are still operational. I ran both electric fans on the circuit before the flex. I think it has to do with the flex fan spinning the electric fan to fast, the pusher is not going back on, I had a problem with the fuse blowing when I had both fans hooked up, but stopped after I dropped it down to one, maybe I will put it back in in the summer and toggle it so it kicks on at my discression, never suspected anything because everything is operating properly.

[Melonhead]

With a higher stall than stock, there is less friction or hold back to the trans at idle. The converter is looser and allow the engine to feel less restriction than it would with the stock converter.

You should have had a dedicated circuit for the fans. Using the fuse block is not good. The longer the wire and higher gauge wire would increase heat over time. This would break down the insulation or melt items as you have seen.

[manyfire]

so I may need a lower stall converter?

[Melonhead]

No, a 2400-2600 would be nice. You still running the 3 speed or the 700r4?

[355V8S10Tahoe]

will it have a good lope at idle

I would say Yes! That cam should most definitely have a lope at idle, it could also cause a loss of some power brake vacuum as well but there are ways around that... I'm running a Crane max velocity cam #113942, rpm range 1,800-5,600, adv. duration 272in./284ex. Dur. at 050 is 216 in./228 ex. Lift w/1.5 rockers is 454 in./480 ex. and LS is 112 degrees... It has a very wide power band with plenty of off the line power, (more than my rear end will handle) a lopey idle that will mellow out a bit after it's hot and great vacuum for power brakes... This is in an 85 350 with .030 over flat tops, 600 Edelbrock carb, Edelbrock performer RPM manifold and ported 305 heads with 194 intakes, screw in studs and stinger roller rockers, compression ratio is around 9.5 or 10 to 1, not sure because these are the emissions design 305 heads with the around 64cc chambers, don't know what exact cc they turned out to be after installing the 194 intakes... I run unleaded regular in it all the time and don't have any pinging problems, but I do get a little bit of a run on sometimes when I shut it down... All in all this made a fantastic street engine for me that would probably do a great 1/8th or even 1/4 if I had my tranny and rear end problems straitened out...

I am just wondering why you would go to a 292/300 cam and run just a performer manifold with it? That cam would need an Edelbrock performer RPM manifold to work properly, I'm just sayin your going to loose some of the potential upper RPM power gains of that cam squeezing it through the small runners in that manifold if it's not the RPM performer...

Another suggestion is a set of Harland Sharp full roller rockers, they can work on pressed in studs and under short un baffled valve covers... I've done it several times in earlier gen 1 engines, but I don't know for sure on your center bolt valve cover engine...

Sorry for the long post, just trying to help... :user:

I would just like to add that I'm running a 1800 stall converter and no problem getting it down to a decent idle... I don't even know if Many's in an automatic?

[manyfire]

TH-350, I may have a f up I havnt noticed since I built this thing, when I built it I thought I put a 3500 stall in it, in fact the original online reciept says 3500, the packing reciept says 2000, just pulled out all the original paperwork to double check, so frankly I dont know F^&K F^&K F^&K!!!! Boy is this a rookie mistake, I plan on changin the tranny next spring so I can always bring up stall converter if needed.

[manyfire]

"I am just wondering why you would go to a 292/300 cam and run just a performer manifold with it? That cam would need an Edelbrock performer RPM manifold to work properly, I'm just sayin your going to loose some of the potential upper RPM power gains of that cam squeezing it through the small runners in that manifold if it's not the RPM performer..."

I have always said performer because that is what the guy I bought the engine from told me it was, guess I could pull the numbers off it and see if it is the performer rpm.

[Melonhead]

Gene, you need to be careful of how much duration and narrow LSA you go with. The larger duration and narrow LSA you go the less vacuum it creates and the less it is goes toward being street friendly. Some guys will say, yeah you can drive it on the street. This is true. The problem of the truck being a daily driver. You think you are pissed now!! Just go with the wrong combo and see the frustrations arise.

[manyfire]

will this cam take to much away from vacuum and make the brakes, or is it middle of the road and do alright on the street? Dont want to get to crazy, believe me I dont want to screw it up but I dont want a puss one either. The guy I am having do my heads said stay below 500, and less than 110 unless I am spraying

Should I go a little milder?

[manyfire]

the intake is a edlebrock preformer 2101,i am asking so many questions cause I have never had to choose a cam before, I have installed them, and built motors, but usually bought a kit, or had a guide help along. I just want to do this right, pretty much get all I can out of it with what I have, not to soft, or not to much.

So please forgive my ignorance

[355V8S10Tahoe]

will this cam take to much away from vacuum and make the brakes, or is it middle of the road and do alright on the street? Dont want to get to crazy, believe me I dont want to screw it up but I dont want a puss one either. The guy I am having do my heads said stay below 500, and less than 110 unless I am spraying

Should I go a little milder?

What Kent said sums it up pretty good, the cam I mentioned earlier above is about as hot a cam as I would ever want in a street motor 272/284 lsa 112, they usually start to get a lope around 270 in duration and a 292/300 in my opinion is more of a drag strip cam specially with a narrow lsa of 108...

I would go a little milder and at or above 110 LSA not below...

[355V8S10Tahoe]

the intake is a edlebrock preformer 2101,i am asking so many questions cause I have never had to choose a cam before, I have installed them, and built motors, but usually bought a kit, or had a guide help along. I just want to do this right, pretty much get all I can out of it with what I have, not to soft, or not to much.

So please forgive my ignorance

Yep, that's a performer, I got one hanging on the wall... I tried to see it in your pictures but couldn't tell what it was, anyhow isn't questions why we're here, I know we have all been there done that as far as cam selections goes... The performer RPM intake I think you need is 7101 and I don't think you should go for the air gap design in your cold climate, it may cause problems for you...

Hope I helped with something, I have to go now... I'll be back!

[manyfire]

Does this look a little better? Or still to aggressive?

Power Range Idle 1500-5200 RPM Strong mid-range torque, Good torque thru low end & mid-range. Fair idle
Int/Exh 443/465
Duration Adv. Int/Exh in degrees 288/298
Duration @.050 Int/Exh in degrees214/224
Lobe Centerline 112

[manyfire]

im confused, do I have to get a hyd roller cam for this? Stupid question but what is the differance?

[XTEN]

I think the cam that 355v8s10tahoe is running would be a really good cam for you.Like Kent said you gotta watch duration with vacuum.You'll get one good stop outa your brakes,and that'll be all she wrote.Hit the brakes again and you're on your own.Hope you got Fred flintstone with you to stick his feet out the door,cause thats what you're gonna need.lol.I thought the same as 355 on the lsa,also.Like I said before,Bigger lsa spreads out the power band,smaller lsa narrows power band.Is that a factory roller motor?If it is,then yes.If not you can run a roler,but retrofit is pricey.I'd stick with a hydraulic flat tappet.Really gets confusing,doesnt it?I think a street/strip cam is the hardest one to pick out.

[manyfire]

wanted to get rid of the guessing game, so I pulled the intake off and a lifter, flat tappet.

[manyfire]

got it decided on the cam, here it is.Hydraulic flat tappet.


Springs are GM Performance Springs 80LBS@1.700 and are 1.250 diameter for drop in use!
422 Intake Lift, and 444 Exhaust Lift. 204-214@.050. Adv Dur is 278 INT 288 EXH Lobe Centers are 107 117

My Eyes are burning, I am going to bed, this is worse than picking a new car!!!!!!!

[manyfire]

ok, got everything ordered, picked up a head set from autozone, use everything but the head gasket, anybody wants them I will sell them cheap.
I ordered the layered stainless head gasket. The roller-tappet question got answered, when I pulled the drivers head today I found the casting number on the block, 82-85 block.
Let this be a lesson to all you first timers, make sure you get all the information off the actual engine and dont just trust the guy that sold it to you.

[355V8S10Tahoe]

Hey manyfire, I guess this means you have center bolt heads on one of the last of the gen1 blocks, does it have passenger side dip stick? A lot of them were made between 82 & 85, 86 I think was the last year for the gen1's and I wouldn't be to unhappy with it because you have one of the tougher blocks, a machinist I know told me they get a lot more gen2 blocks in the shop that were trash because they had heat cracks in the lower water jacket area and rarely ever in a gen1, gen2 block castings are thiner and lighter in certain areas... This may be a good thing for you...

I guess mine is probably the same block as yours, 85 350, 2 bolt, passenger side dip stick... You may even have a two piece rear main seal? But I have seen early gen2's with one piece rear main seal and flat hydraulic tappet cam...

I guess you never know what you've got unless you build it yourself, I always do, nobody touches my stuff unless it's mounting a tire or delivering it to my house on a flat bed... :icon_lol:
But I do get some machine work done once in a while that I check for flaws when I get it back...

Happy Re Building! :cool:

[manyfire]

I cant complain I think I got a heck of a deal and a great motor for what I paid for it!! Been running the crap out of it for 5 years. He just used cheap gaskets and probably didn't re-torque them. I think what happened was I didst let the motor warm up enough, tried to jump out in traffic and the rest has been told.
If I didn't want to get the heads redone and a new cam I could have it on the road today. It will be worth the wait.

[manyfire]

its a bad rerun on tv, well the good news is for sure the cylinders are bored .030 over, stamped in the piston head, both of the head gaskets were burnt pretty bad, probably when It overheated on the way to the track this last summer.
BTW thanks space, read what you put on the other thread. Getting the heads redone and will clean the tops of the block really good. Both of these were higher end felpro's.

[manyfire]

happy today, just pulled the oil pan off cause I wanted to change the oil pump, been having problems with the pressure fluctuating alot, mentioned it earlier in the year. When I pulled the pan it had no buildup at all, no metal flakes, sprinkles, dots, specks whatever and the magnet was clean. That is a good feeling. Hoping to get the cam today so I can pull the old one and test fit for play:D The only problem is I seemed to have misplaced the oil pickup press tool, think I loaned it out and never got it back, old lady has the car at work so I will not get the oil pump back in today. Oh well cant have a day in the garage go perfect right?

[manyfire]

X Ten you were right about that valve cover bolt, that dog aint comming out, I tried tapping, but you couldnt get it, then I drilled a small hole in the middle and used a EZout, the ezout snapped off, then being hardened steel the bits kept going for the softer metal and screwed that hole all up, so I just stopped for the day. Trying to score a set of vortecs, think I have a set cornered for 100, then I will send them out to get washed, decked and valve seats cleaned for a aditional 200, so I will get a good set for 300. Hopefully, yes I am counting my chickens!!!

[helmmadkc]

you can take the head to a machine shop and they can get it out fill the hole and re-tap it . i have done the same thing but it was on a center bolt head between rockers and with a alternator bolt that broke off . i tried left hand bits easy outs with no luck took to machine shop with a 3/8 bolt hole now looking like a distorted 1/2 hole and guy said boy you lost that battle and fixed them up . it cost me 50.00 to repair two holes . good luck on your repairs . just remember smallblocks never die they just get bored

[manyfire]

It's a valve cover bolt, if I use these heads I will just drill it out, tap and put a hellicoil in it, but really shooting for vortecs!! Think the home banking specialist(wife) has just about approved the purchase, keep having to appeal the denial!

[helmmadkc]

lol , i have one of the home banking agents also , are you looking at the vortec fast burn heads .

[manyfire]

MAinly street use so probably just 96-02 stock cleaned up, polished and decked, if I can get the heads cheap I have sombody to do the work to them pretty cheap

[manyfire]

pulled the cam out today, the old cam was a Edelbrock 2102

.006 lift 278in 288exh
.050 lift 204 214
valve .420 .442
lobe 112 107

heres the one I bought, wish I would have pulled it before I bought a new one!!

278 288
204 214
.422 .444
117 107

not much of a difference that I can see, valve lift a little more and lobe a little further apart, I don't know how much of a difference that will make.

I also noticed he did not use the recommended springs, Edlebrock said not to use double springs, it had them in, and it also said to use a specific timing set, he just had a standard double roller on there.

[manyfire]

alright here are the specs on the box, how do I find out what to set the timing at what rpm?

[manyfire]

found a edlebrock spec sheet that is for the cam, the edlebrock almost matches up perfectly, gives the timing, rpms etc. Looks like I got a high torque cam. Found a couple of dyno sheets that are almost the exact setup as mine that are showing about 345-355 hp and 390-400 torque. they are not using vortec heads, dont know how much of a differance that will make. I can do that.

[manyfire]

got the vortecs cast iron casting 906 from the salvage yard today, one valve was bent and a couple were pretty rusty, so I sent them to the machine shop, he is going to resurface them, pull all the valves and redo the seats,check the valve guides, wash and give me back a set of bare heads with the rocker studs pinned(thanks for the suggestion Melonhead), I purchased the valve springs, new stainless valves, and retainers, valve seals, the only thing I am reusing is the rocker arms, nuts and washers and the cap on the springs, so when I get done I will have a set of completely rebuilt heads for about $350, that is less than one I have been able to find on the net.

Thanks ZR1 for the chance at those Vortecs you have.

[leebert]

Whats the plan for an intake?

[manyfire]

bought one from KMJ off eBay, got the shiney one, wanted to get the preformer RPM but the funds are getting real low, had to explain to the bank today again why I went over budget. I think sooner or later she is going to wrap it around a tree so I will quit putting money in it, lol.

[leebert]

Nice, it'll be interesting to see what kind of gains you get with the new heads and intake. Can't wait to see it when its all finished.

[Melonhead]

got the vortecs cast iron casting 906 from the salvage yard today, one valve was bent and a couple were pretty rusty, so I sent them to the machine shop, he is going to resurface them, pull all the valves and redo the seats,check the valve guides, wash and give me back a set of bare heads with the rocker studs pinned(thanks for the suggestion Melonhead), I purchased the valve springs, new stainless valves, and retainers, valve seals, the only thing I am reusing is the rocker arms, nuts and washers and the cap on the springs, so when I get done I will have a set of completely rebuilt heads for about $350, that is less than one I have been able to find on the net.

Thanks ZR1 for the chance at those Vortecs you have.

You are quite welcome Sir!!!;)

[donniercjet]

manyfire, pay close att. to your valve springs. make sure your springs are rated over the lift your running. floating valves is a bad thing. lol thought i would bring it up seeing that i havent seen anything in this post about them.

as for the head studs, if you can swing them there worth every penny. they can be i little harder to remove, but do you swap heads out every other weekend?? they do spread out the pressure better. myself, i run studs anywhere there is bolts. studs wont stretch like a bolt. big hp motors of 500 hp or larger, or running spray should always be studded also. your motor is only as strong as the weakest link....

[manyfire]

i bought springs that matched to the cam, already bought the bolts, not expecting the horsepower to go over 400, dont really know where exactly it is going to be, like I said earlier in the post I have seen cam for 345-355 and torque 390-400 but that was with 193 casting heads without the vortec heads and the rest of the engine setup is basicy the same. I am hoping for closer to 375-390 hp and 400-425 torque. Doubt I will get it but it is worth a chance. Have it dynoed next summer!!!!!

[manyfire]

one of the valve seats were cracked, he tried to put a new one in but the crack was to bad, so I gots to take the head back to the yard, he said he could have another on monday. then back to the shop, so probably the end of the week, dang

[Melonhead]

That is not very nice of that head!!!! It was saposta be good far ya....

[manyfire]

i think that it doesnt want to get back on the road!!!! If I would have stuck with the 193's I would be driving it today, hopefully it will be worth the wait.
The crack goes from the valve seat all the way up the exhaust chamber on the water jacket side. Couldnt see it until it was cleaned. Oh well, thats the way shit goes sometimes

[Melonhead]

It well get better Gene. It's past time for some good to happen...

[manyfire]

I can say one thing I have one beautifully machined head sitting in the garage, the machine shop told me he would do the next one for nothing but I told him that wasnt fair to him, he had already done all the valve seats, and cleaned it, so we settled on 50 to do the valve seats, clean and surface it. Still less than the price of a single rebuilt one online or at the stores with core charges.

[XTEN]

It seems nothing worth while is ever easy.

[Ryoung68]

If it was easy, we wouldn't be a special breed! :user:

[BigMean]

If it was easy, we wouldn't be a special breed! :user:

Yes Sir! :D

[manyfire]

unless you've done it, or are doing it, you could never appreciate these trucks!!

[manyfire]

got the second head today, finally, the post office is running slow for getting me the new valves, thought I would get them today, hopefully tomorrow so I can get this thing running again. I went ahead and painted them that nice Chevy Orange today, I can hear them asking to be put in and ran!! Here they are machined, cleaned and painted just waiting on the heart valves that bring them live

[manyfire]

dont order from the ChevyStore off ebay unless you are in no hurry at all. I called this guy last wednsday and ordered over the phone, he told me he would have the package shipped out friday, well its thursday and I still have not recieved it. I called him and asked him about it and he told me, I would have it by the weekend, I have ordered things from him off ebay on a friday and recieved it by wednsday, so I am thinking he didnt ship it out until at least tuesday. I hope I get it tomorrow, or else I am looking at another freaking week.

On a good note, due to the unwanted delay I have had time to delve into all of those little things that bug you, the "i'll get to that somday" stuff, cut and made a custom top bracket for the Rad. Core, fixed a little problem on the steering column, and a bunch of other crap. Anyhow, hopefully tomorrow.

[BigMean]

dont order from the ChevyStore off ebay unless you are in no hurry at all. I called this guy last wednsday and ordered over the phone, he told me he would have the package shipped out friday, well its thursday and I still have not recieved it. I called him and asked him about it and he told me, I would have it by the weekend, I have ordered things from him off ebay on a friday and recieved it by wednsday, so I am thinking he didnt ship it out until at least tuesday. I hope I get it tomorrow, or else I am looking at another freaking week.

On a good note, due to the unwanted delay I have had time to delve into all of those little things that bug you, the "i'll get to that somday" stuff, cut and made a custom top bracket for the Rad. Core, fixed a little problem on the steering column, and a bunch of other crap. Anyhow, hopefully tomorrow.


Had the same thing happen to me. Took over 10days to ship the 5.3 head bolts I ordered from him too!

At this point Gene, I really dont get in too much of a hurry with Ebay. 12 Days to get My Converter off ebay as well!!!! Kinda makes that "98-100% Pos Feed back report on the seller" Which they seem to all have is Bullshit!! Yeah you save money on ebay but lose time!

Im doing the same thing, fixing the little stuff! Easier doing this with a Bare truck frame and no Interior!! Compared to running FINISHED truck like yours!

Hang in there! :)


Justin

[manyfire]

here is some pics of the new rad core, I welded it and covered it with that stainless steel tape, think I have a pic of the old upper member in my photos.

[manyfire]

called the guy today, still didn't get the parts, he accidentally put the wrong street number put 88th instead of 83rd. He already had them returned to him so he shipped out when he said. I can understand that, he is putting it out again today. he is only one state away so I will have it by wednsday, but, I wont get to work on it until next weekend, so I am debating on if I should go ahead and pull the tranny since I am getting it wednsday anyhow. I am undecided on what to do. Should have just paid the shop to machine the old ones. I have had one of those weeks that it was probably best that I didn't work on it anyhow.

Went to decorate for christmas and redecorated the ceiling in the living room instead.

[355V8S10Tahoe]

Many I got to thinking about what you said above: (Should have just paid the shop to machine the old ones.) Sounds to me kinda like your just going to drop them in, I have always been told by machine shops that even if you get new valves they should be reground on a good valve grinding machine just to make sure there right and have the right angle to go with what they did to your seats, I always have them do this for me and I tell them not to assemble the heads because I like to check there work, lap them in, check for seat to valve contact area, width and position then install seals and assemble. Then I check closed valve spring pressure and shim if needed. Believe it or not you can get defective valves when buying new, I've seen it a few times...

I've also been trying to figure out why you had to do that to your rad support? I guess I haven't been following your project threads close enough...

[manyfire]

I am going to have them checked before I put them in, the shop I used the machinist works at the local BOCES teaching engine builds when I get the valves in I am dropping the heads and valves off at the school, It is going to be a test for the kids to fit the valves properly and machine the valves if needed. If they mess up any of the valves they will replace them. I just had to supply the new valves to begin with

When I did the rad support I butchered on the initial install, so this was a way to strengthen it and make it look better at the same time.

[355V8S10Tahoe]

Gotcha many, it looks strong now, that's cool what your doing for the school for engine building...

[manyfire]

They are doing a 350 build now, so I am going to donate the old heads and intake to them for it, they are 193's, but for what they are doing it will work out.