head recommendation

[Jeffyboy]

Hey guys,



I\'m considering a heads and cam swap in a while and was doing some research. I know I\'ll want a smaller intake runner since I miss my low-end torque since my last cam swap. Dart has an Iron Eagle head with a 165cc intake runner and their SS head has a 170cc runner. I still want power up to around 5500-5800 rpms - will these heads give me that? Right now I\'m running a way-too-big cam (.500 lift, 246 duration at .050) and 624 casting heads, so I thought better heads + smaller cam = more power and better driver.



Part of the problem is that I\'m limited to a large-chamber head since I have domed pistons. The guy that I bought the truck from said it\'s at 10.5:1 compression as it sits. The SS heads are already 76cc chambers, but the Iron Eagles are 72cc. Will a thicker head gasket make up for this?



Then, camshaft wise, I\'m leaning toward the Comp Cams XE268 or XE274 cam since I already have a 2400 stall converter.



Any thoughts? Power guesses? My truck already desktop dynoed 360 hp with my current setup. Hoping for 400 - possible?



Here are links to the heads I\'m thinking about. Let me know what you\'d do. I\'m not looking to fork out a bunch of cash for AFRs or something like that.



<hr><img src="images/forum/ebaylink.gif"> I saw this on eBay motors: SS head (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8035365452)<hr><hr><img src="images/forum/ebaylink.gif"> I saw this on eBay motors: 165cc Iron Eagle (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8036120373 )<hr>



Thanks for your help!



Jeff

[Jeffyboy]

OK - a little more research on Dart\'s website lists the SS head and the 165cc Iron Eagle as the same thing. I don\'t know why the ebay auction for the SS head mentions it being 76cc and 170cc runners. Any ideas? Thanks.

[ZR1BLAZER]

i bought a set of 906 vortecs. i had to buy another intake so that was a down fall but i only payed $290 for the heads. that includes shipping. i dipped them in an acid bath yesterday and then changed the seals and springs to a .525 lift spring. so i didnt spend an arm and leg. the 906 heads are 64cc heads with 170cc cumbution chambers. and with the cam swap and heads grim checked it on his DD and i should still be around 365hp on my 327 and still run to 5500 rpm. before you spend $600+ you can get some vortecs and a new intake for that?

[coppergmc]

If I knew more about your combination, I could tell you exactly what your compression is. .100 dome, .150, or bigger piston dome? I could probably guess from there. If your compression is little higher than you would really like, use the XE274. For more comfortable compression use the XE262 or the XE268.



As far as the heads, I like the 180cc heads better. They cost just a little more money but are worth it.

[rayL]

im thinking with a head swap only you would make more power than swapping heads and going to a smaller cam. big cams make big power.. that 500 lift 246 cam sounds like a good pavement pounder and you already have the convertor for it. I would try heads first and see. Like zr1 said the vortecs are a good intermediate head that will flow about the same as a 180cc aftermarket head. Only problem i see would be the compression. smaller cam and bigger heads just dont make a whole lot of sense to me for someone wanting MORE power.

[Jeffyboy]

Well, it\'s not so much more power, but better driveability that I\'m after as well. I\'ve got very low vacuum for my power brakes with the cam I\'ve got now (Crane Energizer 302 - 3500-6500 rpm range) and would like better low-end torque. It also bogs a little bit when taking off from a stop. My truck should never see over 6000 rpms, so I thought maybe a lower rpm range (up to 6000) would be better. Crane recommends more converter than I have for use with that cam, too.



I\'d love to do Vortec heads, but the compression would be too high. Since I didn\'t originally build the engine, I\'m not sure about the piston dome - I\'m guessing .285\" from looking at their website. They\'re Speed-pro Hypereutectics. According to the website, a 72cc head would yield almost 11:1 compression - definitely higher than I\'d want to be. Would the thick head gasket lower it back to around 10.5:1 if I went with a 72cc head?



Or I could do like Ray said - keep the cam and put bigger heads on it instead. Anybody think that\'d work out ok? Would a new converter make it a little more driveable? Or would I be happier keeping the converter and changing cams?



Thanks,



Jeff

[rayL]

my definition of driveable and yours may be totally different. I drove a car with a 3k convertor and a 540 hyd. cam for a couple years everyday until i started driving 15 miles one way to work. If you want a truck you can drive down the interstate and cruise @ 2500 rpms..then a big cam isnt gonna work. Im just not sure what your plans are. If its an everyday driver, everywhere you go truck then yea id back the cam off and for that matter get them domes out of there cause they suck for effeciency with low compression.

[ChevyKiD_69]

i dont know much. but iam doing a slow builder and just to let you know about those heads you got now they crack pretty easy in between the middle ex chambers by the valves when it gets hot. id go for the vortec setup. the heads isnt to bad to buy but the intake is where they get you at. but all is worth it if you ask me. good luck on your build. nick

[robtn]

This Lunati cam below was a good cam I ran in my first 350 I built. I had about 10.5 comp and a set of ported 461 fuelie heads. The cam had a good sound and still had enough vacuum. I ran a 650DP and it had a lot of torgue. When I swapped to a Comp cam with .515 lift and dur. of .246 I had to swap to a 3000 stall and a 750 carb to get a few more tenths at the track. Basically if you are wanting more power get a better set of heads and get a bigger converter. If you want a more driveable setup step your cam down to about .230 duration keep the stall you have now and get a better set of heads that would give you some top end power you lose with the smaller cam.



Hope this helps

Rob





Brand: Lunati part#LUN-00010LK

Product Line: Lunati Bracket Master II Cam and Lifter Kits

Cam Style: Hydraulic flat tappet

Basic Operating RPM Range: 2,000-6,000 RPM

Duration at 050 inch Lift: 230 int./230 exh.

Advertised Duration: 292 int./292 exh.

Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio: 0.480 int./0.480 exh. lift

Lobe Separation (degrees): 109

[s-10maniac]

well everyone seemed to wrap the question up. everyone here knows the basic answer to more horse and torque, is the right combination!! heads,intake,carb,cam,stroke,exhaust. Every combo takes diffrent effect. I can say that the fuelie heads 461 or 491 can be some awsome heads if proper work is done, and there stock castings. match port(intakeand heads ) to a medium race port gasket. port the exhaust, new springs,valves(.202 of course) seals,keepers and retainers. surface .30 to combustion side. whala. the 491 fuelie heads are 64cc and produce lost of action. ( i have them) Cam wise the other fella had it, it depends on everyday driver or race. I use a lunati 300 dur. 515 lift on my everyday driver( well not everyday). but works very well with my combo. Hope I can help!!

[ZeroGravity58]

i ran a 383 with dart 180cc heads and a 274xe cam and it waas pretty drivable and quick went 12.0\'s but i never drove it in the rain. Id go with like a 268XE and it will treat you well and get a set of dart, vortec, protopline heads. I even ran my powerbrakes when i had the 274xe in my motor.

[carkiller]

just wondering, why not run a vacuum can. i run one on my truck with great success.. my cam is a solid with 250 degrees at .050 with a .525 lift..

[Jeffyboy]

The truck\'s not an everyday driver by any means - it\'s mostly driven for fun, to car shows and cruises, at the track a couple of times a year, and to work on the occasional nice day. I\'ve learned to drive it pretty well as it sits, but I\'m thinking something more mild with more low end might be more fun. At the same time, I don\'t really want it TOO mild, either. I think Robtn is on the right track with what I\'m looking for - I think I\'ll keep the converter and change heads and cam. ZeroGravity makes it sound like that combination will definitely make me more power, too - though he had some extra cubes - I\'m running 13.40s on street tires with my current combo. That vacuum can might be a good idea to get through until I get the dough together to accomplish this deal.



Here\'s my last couple of questions:



will a thicker head gasket keep my compression ratio reasonable if I go down to a 72cc head or do I need to find a 76cc head?



How much better for my application would the 180cc head be over the 165cc? Will it matter much since it won\'t see over 6000 rpm?



Thanks for all the help/opinions, guys. I knew I\'d be coming to the right place for this.



Jeff

[ZeroGravity58]

when i ran the 180cc heads i never really spun mine up to far past 6,000. With the 274XE cam it sounded good and performed. I ran the Dart 180cc heads with 72cc chambers straight plug with a .040 head gasket with flatops and had right around 9.5:1 compression. It was driveable and everything was functional. If your truck isnt an everyday driver you maybe able to step up to a solid flat tappet cam. I knwo the they have the XE grinds in solids also.

[coppergmc]

[quote]

On 2006-02-11 14:12, Jeffyboy wrote:

Well, it\'s not so much more power, but better driveability that I\'m after as well.



You could advance the cam 4 degrees. The difference in drivability increases a good bit. Power shouldn\'t be affected any except on the upper top end.



As far as the comp cam, I put a XE274 cam in a friends motor with vortec heads and flat top pistons. The engine pulled about 10.5 in at an 850rpm idle. The power brakes worked alright most of the time....



The 624 heads really are crap. They flow similar to the 882, 993, or 487 casting heads. The 624 just crack like crazy. I have never seen a used set that weren\'t cracked. You might be able to find a set of 993 casting heads in the junk yard. They are thick castings and street stock dirt track racers love them because of how tough they are. They flow pretty good with a little port work and will yield the same compression you have now. If you aren\'t having trouble with your 624s now, I wouldn\'t worry about it.



The SS head you mentioned ealier is basically a stock replacement head. I don\'t think that you would be any better off buying the new heads other than just \"having\" new heads. The 180cc head is a different story. You might want to contact Dart and ask them about the newest design of the 180 heads.



Don\'t rule out the World Torquer head. I ported a set last week to go on a 383. They turned out really nice. Polished chambers and runners on a clean bare head gives me a woody. I\'ll check on the piston dome cc and let you know something later. It would be better if you knew exactly what you had. Good luck.