Flame Throwers

[Fathead]

Hey guys, i was really really really thinking about flame throwers for my truck, like spark plugs in the exhaust, for a little show. I was wondering what your thoughts are, and how i should go about doing it. My idea was, run a nice amount of power to a switch, then off the switch, dual it, and run the wires back to the back of the truck, in the framerails. Then, hooke each wire up to a coil on each side, and run a spark plug wire to a spark plug in the exhaust, about 6 inches(or what do you think) from the end. I would drill a hole, weld a nut on it to install the spark plug. Also, i have true duals with no emmisions crap, no cats, and dynomax super turbos, so i think i would have enough fuel to make a show. Anyway, what do you think, dont wanna spend the 200 dollars on the kit from Autoloc.com that doesnt even have the spark plugs, wires, or coils.

[basementdweller]

sounds like you know what yer doin... 6\" from the tips... drill it.. weld it.. put the plug in.. and put 2 coils back there... run the truck a little rich and hook it up.. i WOULDNT hook it up to a switch.. that may be dangerous.. do a push button that you cant forget to turn off!

[Fathead]

thanks, im only 17, but automobiles(s-10 v8 mostly) are my obsession, my hobby, and my one true love, so i try.... lol. Thanks, ill start here in a day or so, ill elt you know how it goes

[IceQueen]

Actualy best way is a push switch that cuts out the coil and activates the spark plugs in the tips you rev the engine to 3000 rpm and press the switch. when you revs are that high lots of fuel and compression and movement switch cuts out gas gets compressed into air and shot out pipe to be ignited on way out good for 6 foot flames but dont do with a cat and change your oil thrice a month if you use it a lot because gas will thin out the oil.



If your running fuel injected with a cat or dont want the fuel in oil problem then get yourself a propain bottle mount it to your frame and hook up a natural gas electric valve and run it to your exhaust pipes 10 inches from the spark plugs and make sure you use a proper natural gas injection fitting or the flame might find its way back to the propane tank and leave a hole in your truck bed. this setup can get you upto 10 feet of flame if done right and wont damage your engine.



what ever you do use them resposibly no shooting fire at peoples cars and be carefull fo whats behind you when you do it!

[snolte]

There was a bit on TRUCKS! about installing flamthrowers on dual exhaust just a couple of weeks ago. They used the autoloc kit or something similar for their install. That kit acually cut spark to some of the cylinders for a richer mixture out the back. As for mounting the plugs, they put em\' about 6\" back but instead of welding a nut on the pipe(which would set the actual electrode close to the side of the pipe and not toward the center) they tapped the hole and put in a helicoil.



Good luck, it should look awesome.

[Knanthrup]

Hah, it\'s funny you asked this question. This is an old secret of mine. My method is probably the oldest in the book and one of the easiest. My grandpa taught this one to me.



Okay, to start out with, go to one of your local antique shops. One that might have some old auto parts or something. Pick up yourself a Model T coil. It will look like a small wooden box, almost like a cardboard matchbox except wood... maybe 4 inches long and 2 inches high and another 2 inches deep. The secret behind this is that a Model T coil gives a consitant charge. It basically has a little thing that oscilates to give output just like a coil but it throws the charge so quick that you see no gap in the output. So then what you do is run yourself a power wire to a switch in your truck, then from the switch run the power back whatever way you choose into the bed, I chose to use one of the drain holes. Actually, come to think of it, you won\'t want to mount it in your bed unless you have a cover over it which I do. So, run the wire back using the frame rails probably to under the bed somewhere. chose a place to mount the coil and hook up the power wire. From there you just need to ground the coil and run the other end of the coil wire to a plug in your exaust. If you don\'t want to drill a hole then you might buy a tip or make one with a hole that you can just slide on or clamp. It\'s that simple, the coil does everything for you. And you can leave it on as long or short as you want.<b> The best part is the whole setup cost me less than $10 bucks for the Model T coil plus the extra wire and switch.</b> Compare that to the $120 kit that doesn\'t even come with the coils or plugs.



I had this setup when I was using my 2.0L 4 cyl and I could shoot 4 ft. flames and I was using a cat. I would have no doubts that a carbed V8 with no cats would be able to hit around 10ft flames or more. Don\'t be too quick to judge though, the first time I hooked it up I was disapointed because no flames were coming out and I learned that I had to pump the gas and get the engine to flood a little, just pump it like 5 times in a row and huge flames will come out. The funny thing is that I couldn\'t get them to stop burning for like 15 seconds, even when it was idling.



I\'m not sure how good this would work with fuel injection because of their efficiency, but I\'m confident it will work on any carb setup, even if you\'re running cats. Something else my grandpa suggested to me was to use a manual choke switch and choke it off a little to get flames. I never got around to trying this but I\'d be willing to bet that it would work.



they used this tecknique in the 1920\'s http://www.s10v8.com/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif



<b>1984 S10 2wd</b>


GM Goodwrench 350 crate


NV3500 5 speed

[Knanthrup]

By the way Fathead, I know exactly how you feel, I am 17 also and basically all of my income and any spare time I get goes into my cars.

[IceQueen]

It\'ll work when your running cats they dont remove fuel vapor from your exhaust but excess gas vapor will cause a chemical reaction and damage a cat making its effiecency go way down. and considering how much the damn things are having to replace them ever so often would be a pain in the posterior.

[IceQueen]

With a coil interruption you\'ll get much larger flames. BTW that kit snolte mentions is pretty much a timed relay so you can save money by just using a regular two state relay for the project have it wired like so



\\/ Relay Coil



|~~| | \\ |

| | | | |

| | | | |

* * * * *

S - C + F



- = Ground

S = Power from switch(+)

+ = Power from harness to coil

C = power from relay to coil

F = power from relay to flame thrower coil



What this does is while you press the switch in power cause the relay to switch its incoming voltage source from your engine coil to your flame coils. This is cheaper then the kit but its upto you.. just dont let your engine stall with the kit or this trick or you\'ll have a flooded engine. just rev er to 3000 rpm and press the switch and let go around 1000 rpm



most people dont like to run there engines rich its not good for them over the long term thow to each there own.



http://www.s10v8.com/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif

[IceQueen]

ack I\'ll just post a picture next time lol it ate all my spaces *pouts*

http://www.s10v8.com/images/smilies/icon_eek.gif

[Fergusonic]

manual choke

[whiner3]

you could do it the cheating way and when your driving down the road shut your ignition off but leave it in geear with the same set up and it\'ll get all the gas... not reccomemended but you get soem really big flames....

[Knanthrup]

On 2003-01-23 14:55, KLRS10 wrote:

you could do it the cheating way and when your driving down the road shut your ignition off but leave it in geear with the same set up and it\'ll get all the gas... not reccomemended but you get soem really big flames....



http://www.s10v8.com/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif a buddy of mine did this in an old beater truck of his. Drove down the road at about 45 on a slight downhill grade, shut the key off for about 10 seconds then back on and the thing fired like a monster. Flames shot way out the pipes and it was LOUD, but I would really not recommend this if you care at all about your engine http://www.s10v8.com/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif



<b>1984 S10 2wd</b>


GM Goodwrench 350 crate


NV3500 5 speed

[link523]

had a friend do that in a camaro and blow the exaust off http://www.s10v8.com/images/smilies/icon_eek.gif

[Fathead]

Hey guys. I really thank you for all the responses, but i was thinking, because i have a really efficient engine, that there wouldnt be enough unburnt fuel to make a good flame, that i could wire up a windshield washer bottle with pump to squirt alcohol or gasoline into the exhaust about 8 inches infront of the sparkplug. My question is how much infront of the sparkplug should i mount it, how should i mount it in the exhaust(so it doesnt melt) and also, as soon as i hit power to the coil, will it fire immedietly, or will it take a second to charge, then fire. Just because i want to make sure i get the most flame out of one shot. Thanks.

[Fergusonic]

That sounds real scary, there Fathead....I would have my hand on a good fire extinquisher at all times!!!

[whiner3]

your not suposed to torn the key back on untill ti comes to a dead stop... ha ha ... yeah.. it\'s not real great on the engine doin that... we had it done on a beater 50 pontiac i had with the original strait 8 in it.. it was just for shits and giggle cuz i didn;t care about the engine... but i say do the propane setup... i\'ve thought about it for my truck

[Knanthrup]

Yeah fathead, I would be cautious about that.... it doesnt sound very safe to me. Thats an easy way to start a big fire and lose a good truck. If you do go that way keep a good sized extinguisher handy.



Also are you running fuel injection? howbout cats? If you\'re running a carb and no cats, I garuntee you will get flames no matter how efficient you think your engine is, even if you are running a cat. Although I can\'t promise it wont hurt it.

[IceQueen]

I mwould recommend agains butning fules in a liquid form because flaming liquid is more dangerous then it is in gaseous form.. you\'d have to have a very very fine tip... if your engine is so efficent cutting out the coil will solve the problem for you and allow you to shoot the flames but I would say hell no to using gas or any other fluid it\'ll just leak out the pipe and burn everything and be dangerous as hell.. only thing you can inject is natural gas and propane but even those are risky if you dont do em right!

[Fathead]

hey, just got the 5 pin relay for the flame throwers, and bought the push button intermediate switch. Should be doing the final hook up tonight or tomorrow, ill get some pics and hopefully some video asap. Cross your fingers, ill have the fire extinguisher ready...

[Knanthrup]

what was your final decision on how to run the setup?

[Nitrojunkie]

Personally i think all those kits are junk. All you get is flames when you let off the gas. If i was to hook up a kit on my truck id definately inject propane into the tail pipe so you can get 30ft flames out the back under full throttle. Get those little $2.00 tanks of propane at wal-mart youre supposed to youse on the little gas grills and get an electric silenoid like they put in line-lock kits. with a safety shut off valve in front of the silenoid run hard copper line to the exhaust. then go to a plumbing supply house or something and find yourself a fine spray nozzle and put that into the pipe. those are real flames.

[Fathead]

im pissed. i hooked up the 5 pin relay, hooked up the coil and spark plug, hooked up the push button, and no flame. THere is power all the way back TO the coil when i hit the button, but it doesnt spark, i think its a bad coil or bad ground, i have it grounded to the mounting bracket of the coil on the frame. also, what gap do you think i should have for it, like .050\" or so???

[IceQueen]

that the 4 banger coil or a different one? if its the 4 banger Id gape it to 0.030-0.040 its not going to run as long as your engines spark plugs so it shouldn\'t hurt it being gaped that close you can hold the spark plug plugged into the wire near the frame to see if the spark will jump or even if the coils powered. personaly Id recommend just getting a 15$ v8 coil.

[creation2004]

i am wantin to know what i am doin wrong, i have a heavy duty wire run from battery to a flip switch bak to the coil on the frame rail, and a spark plug in the tail pipe but still no fire. the tail pipe is solid black so i know its runnin rich, always has run rich, and a new spark plug and i know it fires

[Knanthrup]

Well someone can correct me if im wrong, but using a normal coil isn\'t going to do much because it lets a spark go once every time it is told to release, it has nothing to \"distribute\" the energy, like a distributor. In my case, the reason why I used a Model T coil is because it distributes spark itself. The coil itself puts out a constant stream of spark because it shuts itself off then on then off again in a quick cycle that continually keeps spark going. Honestly this is the only coil type I know that would do it... as far as those regular coils go that you guys are trying... I don\'t really see how they would work but maybe you have something planned out that I didn\'t think of. Anyways let us know if you do happen to get it to work because I\'d be curious. If you give up on it, take my advice and go find yourself a model T coil out of an antique shop... those are exactly what you need. Hot wire, ground wire, and plug wire and it\'s good to go.

[creation2004]

how much does a model t coil cost and exactly were can i find it?

[eurekarobert]

there are many on EBAY wheather or not they are the right ones I do not know. http://www.s10v8.com/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif

[IceQueen]

Knanthrup youve been corrected a coil can release continues energy because at 1000+ Rpms the coil has to or your engine wouldn\'t work right a model t coil is no different then any other coil its just the packaging thats diffferent the workings are exactly the same a coil works by creating pulsed energy at a high frequency using a shunt technique similar to whats used in a tv to produce the high voltage energy that makes the image on the screen.



so if his coil isn\'t firing its simply because its defective or not getting the right current to it. if his wires are good it has to be a defective coil and he should just get a el cheapo from a crap auto store.

[creation2004]

the coils gettin fire and its just not doin anything wont shoot flames, i have the stock 2.8 carbuerated and its extra rich lol, but still wont do nothin no flames at all, but it is sparking, but i will try to figure it out with trial and error, oh well thanks

[Knanthrup]

Thanks for the info IceQueen.



caucasian_creation, the spark plug for you is going? I ran into the EXACT same situation as you and I almost gave up. You probably just started her up and let her idle or reved it a little right? See the thing is that it\'s burning too clean at a normal idle or rev, what you need to do is pump the gas pedal continuously until you are almost flooding the engine. Just pump like mad to where its almost sputtering, you need to do with to get enough unburned gas fumes through the pipe. Either that or you could try choking it off with the choke, I haven;t tried that. With my 4 cyl, I wasn\'t able to get it to fire up normally driving, I had to stop and pump her to get it ignited. Try what I said and just experiment with the gas pedal and choke a little... the trick is to dump enough gas into the engine to where it can\'t burn it all efficiently. Let us know how it works out.

[Fathead]

Dont forget that when you want the coil to fire the spark plug, it will fire just running power to it, but to get the coil to charge to 20000 volts or how ever much you need to cut the ground for a quick second so the magnetic field collapses onto the laminated core which fires the spark plug.



Ok, here is my final setup. I have a 5 pin relay, so that when the relay gets power from my momentary on switch, it redirects the power from the distributor to the coils for the frame rails. This, in turn charges the coils, then i hit the momentary off switch, to cut the ground so that the magnectic field collapses to fire the spark plug. I was getting spark, but not hot enough, because i could get the coil to charge, but i couldnt cut the ground for a second to fire the spark plug. I will be using a momentary off and momentary on switches, both in the same pod to charge the coils, and to cut the ground. The switch setup is from a school bus. Ill let you all know how it works, finish tonight, DEFINATELY. Ill get pics and post them tonight.

[Fathead]

Correction, the coils are sitting/mounted inside the framerails, not putting power to the framerails.

[Fathead]

alright, im pissed

I hooked the grounds of both the coils to a momentary off switch, and the power to them both from the relay to a momentary on switch, and it still doesnt fire. I have spark, and i can cut out the engine, then fire the spark plugs, but no flame. Whats my problem, please help.

[Fathead]

still pissed, and still looking for suggestions

[Fathead]

THEY WORK!!! I slipped and bought a kit off of ebay, but damn is it cool. You can do it by revving it, or driving it still in gear, just hit a button and FFFFFFFLLLLLLLLLAAAAAAAMMMMMMMEEEEESSSSSSS out the back. If you pump the gas, its pretty cool, really red, but if you hold it floored, its just really bright blue, pretty cool. I love it, ill get some video asap. Later.

[miah]

Glad it worked out, cant wiat to see the videos, btw, how much did you spend on the kit?

[Fathead]

the kit was about 65 dollars, then you need to buy 2 coils, 2 spark plugs(long reach), and 2 spark plug wires, along with a push button switch and misc. wire.

[cs10v8]

well it\'s great that you got it working. I did this with a 4.3 hei distributior that was turned by a eletric motor and used a 20 pound porpain tank with 2 valves one to turn it on and the other to regulate the flame and you could burn a flame as long as there was propain to burn. I had this setup for a bout 2 years and it still worked altho I did have a lot of fun with it and got in to trouble a few times so watch out! http://www.s10v8.com/images/smilies/icon_eek.gif

[Fathead]

Hey guys, start checkin the pics as soon as mike approces my pics, i got a few pics of my flames. I will have video here in a few days, but just some pics now. Now you may see only 1 firing, its because the both go then kinda alternate and pop and just all over the place. Also, the flames arent as big in the pics. When you get it warmed up(drive it for 15 min) they are nice. They shoot about 4 feet when warmed up. Take a look, hope you like.