EFI vs. Carb

[justin]

I plan to eventually get enough money to build a 383 to put in a s-10. So far I plan on using aluminum heads, big cam, and new intake. I\'m trying to decide between putting a carb or EFI on. It is going to be a daily driver and my goal is 500hp. I have never owned a carbureted vehicle but I have heard they are sorta unreliable. I was wondering if I will be able to get good power out of maybe TBI? I\'m not really sure on this stuff so if you could help me out and give me some suggestions on some different setups that would be great. Thanks.

[Koerbs]

You can do anything if you can afford it. If you have cold winters go EFI. If you are getting a 95 and it has TBI stay with it IMO.

[Mike]

If it were me, and if I had the money to spend, I would go with EFI, especially if I wanted it as a daily driver. I am not sure on any HP limits going with EFI, I wouldn\'t think there would be. Being a carb\'d engine isn\'t necessarily going to make it any more unreliable then EFI, remember EFI has plenty more to deal with, so a carb\'d engine could be considered more reliable, depending on who you ask.

Again I am no expert on either, but I wouldn\'t think you could get much from a TBI, but I really don\'t know, I am sure someone will clarify how ignorant on the subject I am.

[justin]

Would I be able to get the power I want out of the TBI? Also, are there such things as performance TBI\'s that maybe Edelbrock or Holley make?

[Quick_Cal]

I don\'t know what year you\'re dealing with, but if you\'re going to try to pass emission\'s, if it\'s a 88 or newer it most likely had fuel injection. If you took a fuel injection motor out, you have to put a fuel injection motor in. I\'ve talked to the DMV and EPA, and that\'s what they both told me. It also has to be the same year or newer motor. The DMV told me they don\'t even put the size of the motor on the title anymore. So I think as long as you have cat\'s and a good motor, you\'ll be fine as long as the thing will pass emision\'s for the ORIGINAL MOTOR that was in the car.



If you have a way around the emission\'s,,,forget everything I just said.http://www.s10v8.com/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif

[justin]

On 2003-01-25 21:34, Quick_Cal wrote:

I don\'t know what year you\'re dealing with, but if you\'re going to try to pass emission\'s, if it\'s a 88 or newer it most likely had fuel injection. If you took a fuel injection motor out, you have to put a fuel injection motor in. I\'ve talked to the DMV and EPA, and that\'s what they both told me. It also has to be the same year or newer motor. The DMV told me they don\'t even put the size of the motor on the title anymore. So I think as long as you have cat\'s and a good motor, you\'ll be fine as long as the thing will pass emision\'s for the ORIGINAL MOTOR that was in the car.



If you have a way around the emission\'s,,,forget everything I just said.http://www.s10v8.com/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif





Yeah, we don\'t have that here in arkansas thank goodness!

[my454s10]

if you have the $$$$ go with injestion....it\'s not no harder than a carb...that\'s my opion...holley makes a killer efi set up for about 1000.00 and if you have a lot of

$$$ than they have on for like 3000.00 ram jet set up...that is good up to 500 horse....i use a carb cause i dont have that much to spend on it ...i always heard this....speed cost money ..how fast do you want to go..

[justin]

I just looked at a Holley 670 CFM TBI on their site and it says that it flows 42% more than stock, but is only good for up to 275hp. Is that right? If so, what size would I need for 500hp?

[Knanthrup]

500 hp would require atleast 850-900 cfm.



Would be a fun daily driver but let me warn you that you could probably watch your gas needle drop just pulling out of your driveway.

[justin]

On 2003-01-25 23:56, KNanthrup wrote:

500 hp would require atleast 850-900 cfm.



Would be a fun daily driver but let me warn you that you could probably watch your gas needle drop just pulling out of your driveway.



Really? Is there any way I could have 500hp and at least 10mpg?

[ZZ4Blazer]

Match your parts, decent gears, and decent driving I\"d say you\'ll hit at least 10 mpg. I\'ve seen many a 383\'s in CHP boasting 12-18 mpg. There was a old camaro in there with a procharger and 600+ RWHP pulling down 14 mpg.



You wont\' see the power with a TBI. TBI is really only good for like -300 hp. They just don\'t flow enough air. I\'d just stick with good old carb. Much cheaper, easier to tune and mod. I doubt you\'ll be driving this in cold weather, let alone snow. Thats really the only time you\'ll have any problems with a carb.



Check out AFR\'s dyno combo\'s. They\'re got a dozen or 2 killer combos for sbc\'s. Most all are very streetable. Check them out at airflowresearch.com. I\"ll be running one for my up and comming 383. The 480 hp combo.



ZZ4 350

Tremec T56

[justin]

Do turbos help much on gas mileage? If so, about how much? Also, you say that tbi\'s are too small, holley makes some big tbi\'s if I ended up going that way. I have never tuned had to tune a tbi, all they very hard? Hey, I see you\'re from Akron ZZ4Blazer, I used to live in a small town called Marshalville, do you know where that is?

[IceQueen]

nope turbo\'s dont help you get gas milage because more boost means more gas

[IceQueen]

TPI will give you higher fuel milage I get 8MPG right now but I drive with a heavy foot on my 383 so im sure if you drove below mid throttle youd get 10 or more MPG with tpi...

[justin]

On 2003-01-27 19:11, IceQueen wrote:

TPI will give you higher fuel milage I get 8MPG right now but I drive with a heavy foot on my 383 so im sure if you drove below mid throttle youd get 10 or more MPG with tpi...



Are TPI\'s good for making up to 500hp? How much does it cost compared to TBI? Harder to tune or not? Thanks for your help.

[IceQueen]

Im running 550HP right now on a custom high octane program I did for my computer. the computer handles the engine you just tweak the tables stored on the computer. I have mine setup for 0-50% throttle to do econo and 50%+ to do performance mode. so if you WOT at a light you tear the rubber off your tires in a 50 foot strip http://www.s10v8.com/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif



BTW we can sell you ECU roms, harnesses, and the computer aswell.

[justin]

On 2003-01-27 19:28, IceQueen wrote:

Im running 550HP right now on a custom high octane program I did for my computer. the computer handles the engine you just tweak the tables stored on the computer. I have mine setup for 0-50% throttle to do econo and 50%+ to do performance mode. so if you WOT at a light you tear the rubber off your tires in a 50 foot strip http://www.s10v8.com/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif



BTW we can sell you ECU roms, harnesses, and the computer aswell.



How much is TPI? And how much do those custom comp. prog. cost? Is that something I could do with like a laptop and one of those OBD(?) cables?

[IceQueen]

Well in my opinion you need more then just a laptop and a cable you need a burner to burn the rom and you need the software it also helps to understand the table because you dont want too much gas or too little.



as for costs it depends on what your going to use for a fuel injected engine and what year you find what you want to use and I can get mike to give you an estimate if thats what you want. http://www.s10v8.com/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif

[justin]

On 2003-01-27 20:10, IceQueen wrote:

as for costs it depends on what your going to use for a fuel injected engine and what year you find what you want to use and I can get mike to give you an estimate if thats what you want. http://www.s10v8.com/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif



When you say what kind of engine what exactly do you mean, 383 stroker or do you mean internals or what? An estimate would be nice if you could also list all the things that go into that final number would be even better(everything I would need listed). And beside miles, intake and heads what differences can the engines have over a few years? Thanks.

[IceQueen]

well your engine would have to be based on the intake and sensors from one of the follow setups



LS1,LS6,LT1,LT4,Vortec



get the intake and sensors from any of those engines and then I can make a harness for you. my recomendation is the LT1 it has a sweet intake.

[justin]

How do I know the difference between those?

[IceQueen]

The person you buy it off of should know.. what year is your engine and what kind of heads do you have on it?

[justin]

I\'m not sure about the year of my engine, but it currently has a 4.3 tbi with a edelbrock performer intake. It has been already bored .030 over and has had less than 10k miles on it since then. I\'m not sure about the heads since technically the engine isn\'t mine yet. My brother has it in his truck and he wants a 383 so he\'s gonna sell me that one and he is going to build another engine for himself. I will try to find out about the heads. Also, did you ever come up with an estimate of converting to TPI?

[IceQueen]

I can\'t give you the estimate until you tell me what kind of intake your going to put on the motor unfortunatly. we dont seel inatkes and fuel rails you\'ll have to buy one or go to a junker and pick one up off a dead engine but you\'ll need to make sure it will work with your heads and make sure you know what motor it comes off of after you let me know I can give you an estimate.

[justin]

On 2003-01-29 21:46, IceQueen wrote:

I can\'t give you the estimate until you tell me what kind of intake your going to put on the motor unfortunatly. we dont seel inatkes and fuel rails you\'ll have to buy one or go to a junker and pick one up off a dead engine but you\'ll need to make sure it will work with your heads and make sure you know what motor it comes off of after you let me know I can give you an estimate.



Ok, thanks for your help, and I\'ll get back to you when I find an intake.

[justin]

I found this Holley <A HREF=\"http://store.summitracing.com/default.asp?target=search.asp%3FType%3Dbysummitpar t%26Part%3Dhly-950-21s%26Search.x%3D1%26SearchType%3DBoth\">throttle body</A HREF> from summit. It flows 900 cfm and costs about $1400. I was wondering how it would compare performance and price wise to the TPI of say a LT1? Thanks.

[IceQueen]

a 5.7 LT1 flows around 900 cfm stock so you can get just as much performance and maybe even more wityh lots of tweaking out of an LT1 then neven make a high flow aftermarket intake to go above 1200 cfm. as for price a stock LT1 is about 670$US for the motor and the harness is 896$US and you can pick up a 16188051 computer for around 40$US so factor in your engine costs and you\'ll see that EFI is a bit more expensive but the performance gains are high aswell as the fuel savings!

[justin]

When you mean aftermarket intake do you mean by just using a larger throttle body or manifold or what? The LT-1 was only on engines from 92-97 right? Thanks.

[justin]

One more thing, is there like a number on the intake that I can look at to make sure that is an LT-1 or something like that if the person that owns it doesn\'t know for sure?

[ZZ4Blazer]

Ice queen, I\'d love to hear specs on your 550 hp na motor. Also, how are you putting a LT1 intake on a regualr motor? Or even an LS1? I\'ve seen the mods it takes to use the LT1 inplace of the older TPi motors. Biggest problem beiing theres no distributor hole.



No stock EFi system is going to be able to handle 500+ hp with no mods. If you have never done an EFI set up, its not gonna be easy. Epecially if you have someone else tune your computer, without the motor being there. And if later down the road you change somethng, it has to be reprogramed again.



You could shell out the cash for one of the Holley Commander 950 systems. I hear they\'re pretty user friendly to tune, and they flow over 1000 cfm with the stock TB.



Properly tuned carb, and the right intake will make just as much power. Do it just as reliable, and way less money. Much easier to tune. Only problem I\'ve ever really had with a carb is starting in really cold weather. I doubt you\'ll be drving a 500+ hp motor in the winter.

[lowrthnus10]

If you wan\'t power and and good mpg. Than i would go with a miltiport injection system. TBI get just as bad mpg as a carb dose. There is a great kit called accel\'s plug-n-play fuel injection system. It\'s a muiltiport system that is all wired up and i have seen it on one of the new gm proformance parts\' crate motor 383. All stock made 530 bhp and 500 ft-lbs of torque, out of a normaly aspirated sb. O I\'m sorry It had a hydraulic roller cam (gm performance). it had 9.5 to 1 compression and got 20 mpg, one 91 octane. Thats a motor.

[justin]

I can\'t decide about anything it seems like. http://www.s10v8.com/images/smilies/icon_confused.gif

[ZZ4Blazer]

What gm peformance sb makes over 500 hp?

[justin]

Ok, I think I have it down to either doing the Holley TBI setup or using a carb. I can\'t really decide yet. The TBI I know is going to have better MPG, and probably more reliable, but is going to be more expensive. If I used a carb, it would be a lot cheaper, but not as good MPG and not great in cold weather. I have another thing I was wondering also, will I be able to reach my goal of 500hp with my engine? I plan on using some good aluminum heads, either way at least 900cfm on my intake, its going to be a 383, matched cam, i\'m not sure what else yet. About how much torque and hp would I be looking at so far?

[ZZ4Blazer]

Check out Airflowresearch.com. They have some dyno packages that they\'ve tested and use their heads. I\'ve seen a couple of other companies get the same power building the same motors. So, I think they\'re pretty close to their claims.



AFR aluminum heads are one of the best on the market in my opinion. BTW, I wanna run a combo very close to the AFR 480 hp 383. I just wanna run the 195 heads instead of the 190\'s, and a little different cam, cause mine will be blown.