Getting your truck to handle

[Knanthrup]

Looking ahead once more, I have come across some suspension questions. I have fun driving my car in the corners and the one drawback from my truck that I remember (before I pulled it apart) was that it handled pretty nastily in the corners... not terrible but it was a little sloppy, I\'m sure you all know what I mean.



Anywhoo I was hoping some of you guys could give me suggestions on how to set up a good suspension to handle nicely. Am I aiming at a stupid goal though? A lot of people tell me that it\'s useless to try to get a truck to handle and that since I have a 350 that I should just make it straight line, but the truth of the matter is that I won\'t be making it a straight track truck, although I will run it maybe 15 times in a year on the strip but most of my driving will be on the street.



I plan on going with a lowered stance, maybe a 3/4 or 4/5 but I\'d like to get the right set up. So this is where I start, I was thinking of going with some good front coils (eibachs maybe) and lowered springs in the rear (manufacturered, not removed leafs). Then I was wanting to get a good anti-sway bar for front and rear. Now with that setup, how good would it be? Would that just make the handling mediocre or would it actually be pretty good? What kind of problems will I run into with the front with all the extra weight of the 350 and what should I try to do to counter them?



So yeah, I\'d like to be able to keep this somewhat simple without cutting and welding a whole new setup on, but I will consider all options. I will definately want some sort of a kit though, be it bolt on or weld on, but I definately don\'t want to end up fabricating an independent setup or something like that myself.



Okay, enough typing, your opinions and suggestions are appreciated, thanks.

[Poolhusler8]

im with ya on this one, i really want an all around vehicle but i dont want to buy another car again, i like my truck , its lowered 2 inches front and back right now and i want to be able to take corners better than any normal car could, any suggestions besides the ones already stated?

[ZZ4Blazer]

Lower the better. That will lower your center of gravity.



Large, stiff sway bars, front and rear. I will be going with new hellwig\'s with energy suspension bushings as soon as I get my tax refund.



You gotta ditch the rubber bushings. Im gonna add the full energy suspension bushings,(control arms, sway bars, leaf sprigns, etc), when I do my front brake swap.



My low pros made a huge difference over my 15\" doughnuts.



A quick ratio steering box will help the feel. Wont make it handle better, but will improve the feel of the truck.



Good shocks and springs wil help out. Most guys I talked to said they didn\'t like the eibach springs. Said they were too soft.



On a standard truck, most of this stuff is available from factory. The 2nd gen ZQ8 package will bolt onto a 1st gen.

[Knanthrup]

Thanks for the tips, I will definately look into that hellwig setup... but any idea the cost on the whole thing you\'re going for?. I\'ve seen their swaybar kits advertised for the S10s for a while and I\'ve been tempted to buy a set front and rear. As far as steering box is concerned, I will be chaning that out eventually. I don\'t have power steering which really kills the feel and the arms, so I will probably be pulling one out of another truck or possibly out of a car with a better ratio that will fit.



Thanks for the note on the eibachs too... I haven\'t found anyone that has tried them and I wouldn\'t want to pay the extra cash for the eibachs if they\'re not any better.

[ZZ4Blazer]

Standard steering box should be 4 1/4 turns lock to lock. The one that came with the ZQ8 trucks should be 2 3/4 turns.



The AGR box I\'d like to get should drop mine to around 2 1/2- 2 1/4 turns. They\'re $330 from summit.



A complete bushing kit from energy suspensions is usually around $150.



The sway bars are usually between $130-150 a peice, depending on the brand.



I\'m gonna run a Hellwig 1 1/4\" up front, and an ADDCo 7/8\" bar out back. Those are the biggest, stiffest one\'s I\'ve found. I\'ve heard that Hotchkis made bigger stiffer ones,but are no longer in production.



Of course, some of my parts are gonna be a little different, since I have a blazer and not a truck.



I like my belltech coils, shocks and dropped leafs. My leafs felt a little weak lately, but I added a cheap set of slapper bars, and it really tightened everything up. I\'m getting another set of drop spindles soon, when I start my new brake system for the front. If your gonna lower your truck any, I\'d definetly get a set of drop spindles at the very least.

[IceQueen]

actualy its simple put tires on your front with a min width of 235 go as wide as you can on the back find a set of 2000 ZQ8 Sway bars my truck handles better then most cars and thats what I have I wanted to drop some weight so I went to titanium sway bars but it didn\'t make a big difference in the handling so stay with the ZQ8 sway bars you can use the leave springs and front springs from that truck aswell to get a nice low stance. to give you an Idea I like to take 90 degree corners of upwards of 40-50MPH so if I can do you can do it http://www.s10v8.com/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif

[IceQueen]

You want to have some play with your sway bars zz or your ride will be complete s&^t the ZQ8\'s work perfect I\'ve tried bigger with no performance improvements just degredation in suspension travel. yeah having the ZQ8 steering does help too =)



if anyoine wants to donate a dana 44 axle aswell as a full size truck rear to me I\'ll give you my complete suspension and rear axle shocks A arms old zq8 sway bars a set of tires not my current ones there 225x16x50 front and 245x16x50 rear there a month old and still have the little rubber hairs on them there my winter tires but there still better then stock there Goodyear GTII\'s and come with the stock 16 inch rim. Im thinking of throwing leaf springs front and back and converting my truck to a 4x4 with duellies on the back ie a full size truck axle.

[wild85]

Aren\'t the belltech drop leaf springs mono leaf?

because in there pictures they look to be that way! So if this is true, those leafs will indeed be weak and bad if you have good torque,and give you major axel wrap.

[bohn333]

i\'m useing a 7/8 inch back bar from an IROC and a 1.25 inch front bar from a firebird, both had to be narrowed 6 inches. The power steering box is from the same firebird. I have gas shocks all around and still need some front springs though. But even with the stock 4cly ones its not bad. Its a 3/3 drop with spindles in the front and blocks in the back. The poly bushings make a hugh difference. I have driving many trucks with the ZQ8 package and i think with some better tires i could stay right with them in the corners. It ain\'t no vette but its sure is fun to drive.

[whiner3]

the main part is gettin it down, lowering it makes a huge difference, stiffer springs help out, also if your too cheap to get a different sway bar you can get shorter end links for it, it will make the stabalaizer bar react quicker, thats all i did and with 205/55r16\'s front a 245/50/r16\'s rear i can go around corners as well as a 82-92 f-body, even wth the v8, with the v6 it handled a little better but i was willing to make the sacrifice for 400+hp... http://www.s10v8.com/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif

[ZZ4Blazer]

Belltech leafs are a 3 spring leaf. No mono.

[Knanthrup]

Alright, sounds good. I think I\'ll start by dropping it then finding some thick bars to throw in there. I\'ll probably end up going for the hellwigs unless I find a better option.



I\'d like to go with about a 4/5 drop, and as for the rear it will be leafs for sure, but for the front, would it be smarter to get say a 2inch spindle drop plus a 1 inch spring plus the V8 weight to make 4 inches or would it be okay to just go for 3 inches all spring?

[ZZ4Blazer]

For handling and ride, go with a set of spindles. Go with 2\" drop coils too. Quality drop coils really wont\' drop but maybe another 1/4 or so from the weight of the V8.

[SS10]

TIRES are 60% of a vehicles handeling

[fasrnur]

If you want to get a quicker steering box use the one that is put on 82 up Camaro/Firebirds.

It is 2 1/4 turns lock to lock. You simply put the pitman arm from the truck on and you all set to change lanes if you sneeze. LOL



I to am like a lot of others here and want my truck to handle well. It\'s one thing to go fast in a straight line...but if you can carve corners with the \"Sports Cars\" that someting else. If drive the Sh%t out of mine and I love to be able to enjoy it in any situation. I also am not afraid like a lot of people I know to drive mine in the rain. I have Goodyear Wingedfoots (235/55/16) all the way round and they are the best tires all round I\'ve had to date. I am planning on putting a sway bar in the rear and maybe a bigger one up front.



Well I\'ve rambled on too long...anyone want to go aut-crossing?



Jeff.....

[ZZ4Blazer]

yeah, I\'d really like to go. I bought my AGR 12.1 steering box today. Upgrading the front brakes, all poly bushings and new sway bars are coming within a month. I think dropping my rear another 1-2\" will make a difference too. I can\'t wait to push it threw the twisties this spring.



I\'ve gotta start hangin out with my cousin more often. He\'s building a little pocket rocket, and its the first one I\'ve had any respect for. He\'s doing it up right too. Hes\' been doing pretty well at autocross events, and not too bad at the track too.

[Knanthrup]

anyone seen an S10 in an autocross? when i enter one, ill get it on video http://www.s10v8.com/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif



hopefully you can hear my engine over all the laughter in the crowd

[ZZ4Blazer]

Im buying a video camera like around april. Im gonna start taping all kinds of dumb stuff me and my buddies do. Events, shows, strip action, street racing, burnouts, doughnuts, etc.



I\'ve seen an s-10 before. But never a blazer http://www.s10v8.com/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif

[bohn333]

i\'d love to try an autocross event, but they never have any here by me.



I want to get a video camera this summer also, so i can tape some wild and crazy stuff.

[whiner3]

i entered what we call a parking lot rally, it was put on by the corvette club and i turned atime a second slower than one of my dad\'s freinds with a 2000 corvette, everyone couldn\'t beleive it, they had a skidpad set up too and my truck pulled .91 g\'s not too shabby for a truck, considering the corvette i was going against only pulled .98 i\'ve got a bigass 1 1/4\" sway bar upfront and i made a homemade panhard bar, like on the camaros and i\'ve had my steering box from a 86 iroc for a long time, i pushed my truck really really hard i had it sliding a littler bit on just about every corner the corvette\'s weren\'t pushing quite as hard as me i\'m sure if i woulda been driving i could have knocked off a second off of his time easliy, i also went to a driving school in colorodo it was a blast. i\'ll get pictures up of my rear suspension and stuff in the spring when i get my truck out i hardly have any pictures of my truck, and i don\'t have a scanner so that doesn\'t help either, ha ha, but yeah my rear suspension set up only cost me a total of $43 canadian, thats including the belltech 3\" angled blocks, if i get rid fo those i might be able to get a little better skid pad result, blocks aren\'t trhe best way to go for handling, really stiff springs would be better. but it\'ll give ya really bad weight transfer in a strait line, but if your willing to sacrifice it for better handling, oh and having a little bit of positive camber on the tires won\'t hurt handleing either, it\'ll wear your tires out a little bit on the inside, just by pulling lowing springs in it will give you about the right camber for good handling, and go with a low profile, like a 205/55/16 up front and 245 50\'s out back. i took a 90 degree corner at about 80km/h in town once tires just barely squeeled on teh fresh pavement, it was awesome, but i\'ll just point out, my 60ft times are horrible at the drag strip

[Knanthrup]

ZZ4 and bon -

That\'s awesome about getting video cameras guys, I would really LOVE to see some videos and even better some variety.... like maybe some street or meet stuff. Don\'t get me wrong, I love onesick\'s videos but it would be sweet to get some steet vids up too http://www.s10v8.com/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif



KLR-

That\'s awesome, I love to hear stuff like that. Your suspension setup sounds close to what I want to end up with... minus the blocks, which I will getting some nice drop leafs instead. What are you using up front? Springs or spindles or both?



I see now that a good handful of you guys use those camaro steering boxes, so I think I\'ll add that to my list as well, especially since I don\'t even have power steering yet. I would ume that I could probably find one in a local wrecking yard. Any comments on installation? Was it easy enough or was there some difficulties?

[ReedZ]

Does anyone know what size the ZQ8 front sway bars are? I\'m looking on a wreckers site, and they\'ve got them for 25mm, 28mm and 33mm. Should i assume they would be the 33mm. Thicker the better?

Also, how does the rear one bolt on to a first gen.

[wild85]

33mm is the 4x4 bar

[Knanthrup]

Yeah, thicker is better but obviously stiffer. The V8 will more than make up for it though so I\'d stick with the thickest myself. I think the rear just has brackets like the front

[ChevyKiD_69]

hey my 89 s15 was lowered in the front pretty low it looked like a 4/5 drop with some wide tires on it. tell you what that thing i could take a 30 mph corner at like 55 or 60 but that was with a 2.5L 4 banger. but if you ask me just drop it and see how it feels. just my 2 cents. nick

[ReedZ]

so can you use the 33mm bars on a 2wd pickup, or should i go with the 28mm ones?

[ZZ4Blazer]

If its a 2wd bar, it\'ll fit any year S10 up front. 4WD bars are different, but Im willing to bet a few of the 2wd\'s got the 33mm.



I don\'t remember how big my stock blazer sway bar is, but is huge compared to the one on my truck. I\'ll try to remember to measure it someting this week when Im down at the shop.

[ReedZ]

I was just reading somewhere, that the ZQ8 bars are also 33mm, so i\'m wondering if the 4x4 and the ZQ8 are the same bar?

They\'ve got a couple of the 33mm ones at the local boneyard, and they only want $40 bucks for each.

Does anyone know if i need to get different bushings, or would the stock s10 bushings work with the larger bars?

ZZ4,

Doe you have the rear bar installed?

If not if someon has a pic of the rear bar installed on someone\'s ride would be great

[ReedZ]

Just bought a 33mm bar. It\'s listed for the 4x2, not 4x4

Just wondering if i need different bushings at all in order to install, or can I use the stock ones that are on the truck already? Also does anyone know if this thing will fit without having to shorten, cut, modify, etc.?

A heads up on what I will require would be great.



Thanks

[ZZ4Blazer]

The endlink bushings should be the same. Or course, since its thicker, the actual bushings that bolt it to the frame are different.



Other than that, it will bolt right in. Only thing that would have to be modified would be if the truck wasnt stock height. IF it was lowered, you would need to have shorter endlinks.



I have a pic or 2 of my rear belltech bar installed, but blazer sway bars are different from trucks.

[ReedZ]

Cool

Thanks,

Where would i get thicker bushings for the frame? Would i have to get from GM?

[bratass]

My truck sits lower by about 2 inches because of age and v8itis I just put a fairly thick bar from a 99 2 wd on frontand used stock end links would it help if they were shortened by 2 inches also. Havent driven since install (no tags/exhaust) it looks to be sitting higher and doesnt have a lot of movement but I drove it for years with no swaybar and original shocks so anything will be an improvement http://www.s10v8.com/images/smilies/icon_cool.gif

[ZZ4Blazer]

Im sure you could get stock ones from a dealership, if you knew what truck they could look up to find the correct parts.



I dont see why an autoparts place wouldnt have them. I know you can get endlinks, not sure why not the other bushings.



You can order a poly bushing kit from most aftermarket places.

[avewhtboy]

<!-- BBCode Quote Start --><TABLE BORDER=5 bordercolor= ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-5>Quote:</font><HR></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-10><BLOCKQUOTE>

On 2003-02-15 16:40, Knanthrup wrote:

ZZ4 and bon -

That\'s awesome about getting video cameras guys, I would really LOVE to see some videos and even better some variety.... like maybe some street or meet stuff. Don\'t get me wrong, I love onesick\'s videos but it would be sweet to get some steet vids up too http://www.s10v8.com/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif





we had an s-series get together thiis past weekend, heres a link to some pics and videos, the videos are on pages 5&6 check them out it was lots of fun in a church parking lot





KLR-

That\'s awesome, I love to hear stuff like that. Your suspension setup sounds close to what I want to end up with... minus the blocks, which I will getting some nice drop leafs instead. What are you using up front? Springs or spindles or both?



I see now that a good handful of you guys use those camaro steering boxes, so I think I\'ll add that to my list as well, especially since I don\'t even have power steering yet. I would ume that I could probably find one in a local wrecking yard. Any comments on installation? Was it easy enough or was there some difficulties?

</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE><!-- BBCode Quote End -->S-series burnout vids and pics (http://www.s10forum.com/gallery/view_album.php?set_albumName=album1157&page=1)



theres a link to some pics and videos(pages5&6) from last weekend,lots of good burnouts and donuts in a church parking lot

[ZZ4Blazer]

ZQ8 box is the same also. Im sure you could find one of those. Hardest part about swapping them is getting the pitman arm off the old box.

[ReedZ]

Is the pitman arm just bolted on? If so, is it something similar to how the steering wheel bolts to the column? Or is it something completely different?

[ZZ4Blazer]

Theres just a big nut on the end of the steering box shaft holding it on.



You wont get it off the box without a pitman arm puller. And, sometimes not even then. I just got a new one, and didnt mess with it.

[ReedZ]

Still waiting for my front sway bar to get here, it should be here next week.

I was out today as it was nice outside and the snow in the driveway has melted. I had the truck up and was looking underneath.

There is NO SWAYBAR ON MY TRUCK..... The truck is stock, and i\'m sure it was never removed. It must have come from the factory this way. I had never realized this before, as i just assume it would have one.

Is it easy to put a swaybar on a vehicle that doesn\'t have one?

I don\'t even know where the heck i would bolt it on to.

Can someone help me out here? Does anyone have any pic\'s of how the swaybar installs?

Thanks

[ZZ4Blazer]

The front bar just bolts to the frame, and the ends bolt to the lower control arms.



There should be 2 threaded holes in the bottom of the framerails. From the front, the bottom of the framerails dip down between the bumper mounts and the control arms. If I remember right, the 2 bushings should bolt to the backside of them, towards the motor.

[ReedZ]

So i guess i\'m going to have to find a set of bushings, and a set of end links then.

I\'ll check the local parts store today.

Thanks for the info.

[jameskirk1]

You will probably have to tap the holes in the frame to attatch the swaybar mounts; I had to on my truck...



Also, I found the blazer bar to be too stiff, so much so that it affected ride quality. I saved it and use it when I autocross, but use a stock bar for cruising around town.