Superior Radiator Application With Factory A/C

[Jim]

Alright...who has used the superior radiator and still keep the AC system? I decided to change out me leaking BeCool with a Superior 4 days before I head 2400 miles east with my S10 towing a 6 x 12 U Haul. I called Superior on Monday and they assured me it would fit in the support with no modifications and my condenser in place. I paid an extra $80 to have it in two days. I pulled the BeCool out this afternoon and waited for the big brown truck. I must have looked like a kid when it arrived. As soon as I opened the box I knew it would not fit. There is no way the radiator in that box would go in my truck with the condenser installed. I would have had to remove the condenser and maybe even the center support to have the radiator positioned properly.



So who has used this radiator with AC? I would sure love to know how you did it. I\'ll be posting some pictures later. It does look like a very good radiator.

[Melonhead]

Jim, I asked the same question about a month ago with no answers. I asked about the possability of moving the Superior radiator to the forward position and still have A/C. From your reaction, I can say no it won\'t work. Thanks and good luck. http://www.s10v8.com/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif

[Jim]

I\'m calling Superior up in a few miuntes and going to raise h#%% with them. I looked again at their EBay ad and it clearly states that it should work with the AC condenser installed. It was hard to tell by looking at the pictures if they had one sitting in support. After pulling mine out yesterday afternoon and seeing again what was in front of the radiator there is no way they had one in those pics. I even told the guy Monday that I\'m running AC and would it work and he said yes.



Even if you moved your condenser all the way forward so that it\'s up against the support that runs vertical I don\'t think the radiator would move forward enough. The only way this would work is by not running AC.

[Jim]

Update...Just called Superior and they said that I should have gotten an instruction sheet showing me how to remove the condenser brackets, trim the rubber supports and move the condenser all the way forward. He said that it would then fit. He\'s going to tfax me the sheet. I\'ll try it once I get to Va. He was not willing to help me on shipping it back. He told me I should have done my home work. I told him that based on his description in his EBay ad I did and he should have made sure I got instructions.

[ZR1BLAZER]

well let us know if it works. i too want a/c in my 91 truck. i was using a 4.3 radiator in the stock position with all the a/c stuff and worked fine but with the serpintine set up i had no room for a good large fan so i had to use 4 small fans. it worked motor never went over 180 but i am going to be doing a twin turbo set up and the turbos will be set forward so now i need to put the radiator in the forward position.

[Jim]

It will be a month or so before I do this. I\'ll post the results when I get it done.

[Melonhead]

Thanks, Get back to us when you can http://www.s10v8.com/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif

[Jim]

I'm about to give back Superior Radiator their product. I have no idea what their problem is but they can't get me the friggin sheet showing how the condenser mounts get modified. Before I decide to go this route I'd like to see what they recommend. Before I left Las Vegas I asked them to fax me the sheet since it was not in the box. Don't know if their fax machine was broken or they were feeding the fax upside down but I all I got was a blank sheet. I told them that I would call them when I got to Va. I called them my first week back, gave them my new fax number and had the same problem. Last week I gave him my address and told them to send it to me. He said it would be in the mail that day (last Wednesday I think.) It's now the following Friday and I still have nothing! In three weeks I'll be taking back to Vegas to move my family this way and I'd really like to have it installed.



If anyone has installed one and has the instruction sheet let me know. I'll email you a fax number or give you my email address.



My main concern is not being able to maintain a gap between the condenser and the radiator. I always thought you didn't want them to touch. Superior says it makes no difference. It may not affect the radiator but what will the heat transfer due to R134 pressures in the condenser? Is anyone running with a setup that has the condenser right up against the radiator?

[Jim]

I "finally" got around to installing the superior radiator this past week. I'll be posting pictures soon. If your not running AC you won't have a problem. Regardless what water pump you run. If your running AC, I recommend you got to the short pump configuration. I'm running a long pump with AC and its TIGHT. I'm running a 15" Spahl fan from BeCool. It's the thinest fan I could find. Even with the BeCool radiator I was running, I had to shave the water pump pully bolt heads and the pump shaft. I also had to take a dremel and shave the back of the fan shroud supports. The fan is mouted offset on the drivers side. With the superior radiator in place the pump shaft is still touching the fan support ribs slightly. I plan on taking a file to it and take the shaft down some more. I'm also thinking of replacing the one Spahl with two 11" fans. Need to take some measurements first.



Since my condenser is now sitting all the way forward, I no longer can run the 10" pusher I had up front. I'm using the stock grill. I'm thinking if I went with a billet tubular grill they may fit. However I haven't been able to find a black one. Flex Lite has some small thinner 10" fans. I'm going to see if they'll fit. I do think I will need a pusher when the AC is on and I'm stuck in traffic not moving.

[Melonhead]

Do you have the room to mount two 12" fans on the back side? Is the larger fan you have in the center or close to the center. I may have an option if you are willing to try.

[Jim]

The 16" spahl is as far to the left (drivers side) as it will go. Overall diameter of the fan is actually larger than the radiator core. When I post the pics you'll see what I'm up against. Two 12" may not work. Two 10" probably will. However I'm not sure I'd get enough CFM. Maybe one 10 and one 12?



I do like the quality of the Superior radiator.

[Melonhead]

Awaiting Pics http://www.s10v8.com/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif

[Jim]

Here's a link to some pictrures of the Superior Radiator installed.



http://s285.photobucket.com/albums/ll60/95bagger/Superior%20Radiator/

[Melonhead]

Jim, looks like the condensor is in the stock location. Is there any space at all between the radiator and condensor? Is the temperatures under control now? http://www.s10v8.com/images/smilies/icon_eek.gif

[Jim]

The BeCool radiator did a decent job in keeping the temps down. The darn thing just leaked from 3 of 4 corners. I had two of them over the last 7 years and both ended up doing the same thing. BeCool didn't seem to be interested or concerned. I sent one back and they said my coolant was being charged causing the welds to fatigue. I asked them what's the min voltage I should have in my water. They gave me a value and I was well below it. This was why I went with the Superior radiator.

I had about a 1/2 inch clearance from the condenser and that area in front of it. I pullled the four rubber condenser mounting bushings/brackets and trimmed them so they sit as far forward as possible and also let the radiator move all the way forward as well. They're basically in place to secure the the top and bottom portion of the condenser and prevent it from rubbing against the metal. I may have an 1/8 between the condenser and the radiator. I've heard the stories about maintaining a certain air gap between the two. Some say it's a must and others shrug they're shoulders. All I can say is today I don't think the closeness affected my over all temp and the AC was cold. Today was the first real test. Over 90 here in Va and stop and go interstate traffic. Temp never got above 195. I only kick the fan on if I'm not moving. Once I'm under way it goes off. I don't know if that one fan will draw enough air across the condenser when I'm not moving. I had to put two pushers on in Vegas. If I didn't have them on in the summer the releif valve on the AC compressor would let you know. When I have the fan on it draws enough air to pull a sheet of paper up against the condenser pretty well. I did install a switch that allows me to turn the compressor off but still have the setting on recirc and the blower fan run. So if I get in traffic with the AC on I can cut it off but the blower will still recirc the cold air I have in the truck. Then once I get going I flip the switch to turn on the compressor. It's supposed to be hot this entire week. Plan on doing some testing.

[soopertruper]

Please keep us posted. I run a be cool, (no a/c) and I'm really not that impressed with it. No leaks, but just didnt see that big of a temp difference. I was looking at the superior, but didn't want to just throw a couple hundred extra dollars at the truck with the same results.

[Melonhead]

Jim, Thanks for getting back to us and the pictures. I am curious and wondering about your set-up. Did you move the trans back at all? If not, what arrangment you have? I understand what you said about the condensor and radiator. I am curious about the motor placement. How much room do you have between the button on the waterpump and back of the radiator in the current configuration? Would a twin fan fit? I remember you mentioned about the two pushers used before, just continplating how to attack the next project. Looking at doing a 2000 blazer with a 383 and looking at how the components will line up before disassembly. Trying not to move the trans and mount the motor as it lands. Thanks ahead

[Jim]

Keep in mind I did my conversion in 1992. I used the advance adapters motor mounts. I'm running the small diameter HEI Accel distributor (part number I think is 41000 and I'm not sure it's still made) I've got the motor sitting as far back as I could get it and still be able to remove the distributor. I'm running the same manual T5 5 speed that came with the truck. It's pretty much sitting in the same position as id did when it was bolted to the V6. About 5 years after I installed the V8 I installed new U Joints and threw a cap a few weeks later. I took the truck to a drive shaft shop and they said it needed to be shortened just a tad. So maybe it is back just a bit.
Initially I was running the stock 3 core radiator. Just had the outlet fitting swapped over. I was running a mechanical fan. It did alright in eastern NC. Had to watch the temps if you had the AC on in stop and go traffic. When I found out I was moving to Vegas I kew I had to make some changes. So I installed the BeCool just before the move along with the Spal fan I'm still running. In order to get clearance I had to shorten the shaft of the pump and the bolt head height of the 4 bolts that hold the pully on. I also had to take the dremel to the back of the Spal fan shroud and do a little modification to the shroud ribs. The fan is mounted to the far left (drivers side.) I also installed one 10" pusher. When I got to Vegas the water pump began leaking. I went with a Stewart pump. Due to my accessory brackets I have to run a long pump. As I said in the previous post, the BeCool didn't do a bad job cooling. I just kept having problems with minor leaks. I did have to add another 10 pusher to help out the AC. I bought the Superior last year and tried installing it a week before I moved to Va last may. When I found out it wasn't as clear cut as I was told, I threw the BeCool back in it. I made three trips across the country from Vegas to Va. Between 13 May and 13 July last year. Two of those involved towing loaded 6x12 Uhauls. No cooling probelms at all.
No doubt the superior radiator is better than the BeCool. It's of very good quality. And if I wasn't running AC it would fill that hole fine and you's have room for a dual fan....especially if you went with a short pump. I couldn't run a dual fan. And from what I see so far I won't need one. I may need a very thin pusher for up front though.
I'll post a few more pics. I have some better pictures showing the clearance I ended up with when I had the BeCool installed. I now have a "little" less....but I'm making it work. No that I'm a paying member I'll try posting them here.
By the way this is a daily driver. If the odometer had that extra number it would be reading 349K. I bought it new March 1, 1985 and I enjoy driving it as much as my 2006, LS2, 6 speed SSR. However the SSR does have it beat in the styling category

[Jim]

Here's a link to some radiator/clearance pictures. This weekend I'll get some better shots of how it looks now.

http://s285.photobucket.com/albums/ll60/95bagger/More%20Radiator/

[Melonhead]

Jim, Thank you for the story. I am currently debating on a Superior Radiator myself. I have my own 86 blazer with a 327. The crossmember was modified to accept a 200R4 and pushed the engine to the back of the mounts. The long slides on the mounts have less than 1/4" space farther back. The firewall had been modified to allow the distributor to be pulled. I am not excited about going into the forward position. The fact is I know space will be limited. I am also using the sepertine system from a 93 4.3 blazer. That has a long waterpump. My main use for the truck is weekend and drag. I want it streetable to drive where ever and still have the comforts. The drag strip is not the highest priority. Just want some good time as a benifit for all the hard work and greenbacks. I may end up moving the condensor to the front side of the support beam and trim the hood latch support. The cowl hood will be pinned, so the hood latch will not have all the hold down by it's self. The radiator then should move into the core as built for.That should allow for a 2" extra from your application if I am seeing that right.

[Jim]

I'll get some better pictures today to better show what I have now. If your modifying the firewall for distributor clearance that should help. Tha should allow you to put the motor back even further. I never touched the firewall on my truck. Just the area where the firewall is welded to the tunnel. I bent over that flat area where the tow are joined to gain access to the bellhousing bolts. Never thought about moving the condenser in front of the I beam. How would it be supported? I think if you go the route I went you'll be fine. I can probalby still shave 1/8" from the pump shaft.

[Melonhead]

Jim, Look at this mans site.
http://users.apex2000.net/whardie/aircond.html

He used a newer body style condensor and but in front of the middle support.