60 ft help

[rayL]

Im kinda new here and havent posted much but i am hoping you fellas you can help out. I have a 87 s10 blazer, 331 ci, th350, art carr convertor, stock rear end locked w/3.42s. Ran the truck for first time this weekend. Ran a best of 7.17@90mph with a 1.78 short time. What are you guys doing to get the short time down. That 1.78 is on stock suspension. i have 4.10 gears ordered, but was wondering if there was any tricks short of cal tracs to get these things out the hole better.



Thanks

Ray

[Knanthrup]

Well traction bars like you stated. The main idea is weight transfer. You didn\'t mention wether you were running slicks or not but with that kind of time id assume you are.



First few things I would look into would be drag shocks for both front and rear, they will definitely help allow the weight to transfer without absorbing it. Also, if you\'re using stock rear springs I would remove a leaf or switch to mono-leaf springs. They will be softer and allow the rear to squat under power.



Beyond that you could take farther measures and change your weight distribution. You could put a fuel cell in the bed, convert the battery to the back, lighten up the front end more.



A lot of it is kind of trial and error tuning. You mentioned it was your first time out with the truck and I would say you pulled a pretty nice time there for not having practice. I think if you experiment with tires pressure and get your launching down you should be able to improve pretty well on top of that.



Good luck!

[rayL]

Yes, thats with a 28x10.5 slick, cell and battery in back. Still running the worn out shocks though. The front i believe to be as light as possible now with aluminum heads, radiator, water pump, intake, inner fenders gone, and 15x4s w/165/15s. Do you think that just the lack of gear may be killin me that much. I seen some guys running 7.40s with 1.5 short times and think i should be closer to that range. Keep the suggestions coming fellas.



Thanks

Ray

[Knanthrup]

I think your springs are where it\'s at right now at this point. These things are pickup trucks and the leafs were made to handle a load in the bed. They don\'t give much until you soften them up. Worn out shocks are probably better than new ones at this point until you get drag shocks because you want less dampening when the truck tries to squat, but more when it comes back up which is the whole idea of drag shocks. I think between that and traction bars plus some more practice and you will be pulling right up there with the rest of them. Hows it feel? Have you been pushing it past it\'s traction limit? Is it hopping?

[rayL]

It feels good so far, i didnt do any experimenting today with it i just wanted to break the motor in and get some passes under my belt before i start tweaking. No hopping or anything of that matter i think its hooking just not rolling out like it should/could. i KNOW the axle has to be wrapping some so i think atleast some sort of slapper bar is gonna go in. I basically just set psi at 10#s and left it alone. im thinking im gonna go up on the pressure some and see what happens ,aybe remove the stock over load spring also. i guess its trial and error from here.



Thanks

Ray

[Skeeter74]

ray what part of Ms are you from

[rayL]

Ocean springs

[rayL]

cmon fellas i thought there was some hardcore racers here. Who makes the best slapper bars for these trucks? anyone running sub 7s on stock rear end??



Thanks

Ray

[Knanthrup]

Everyones being a little quiet. Sorry ray, i gave you all i got http://www.s10v8.com/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif

[rayL]

i figured this would be the place to talk some s10 smack too. Im gonna blurt out what my investigations on this matter have lead too. Talked to a guy today thats running mid 6s on w/ 406 and 1.5 short times. Hes still on the stock housing, welded the tubes to the centersection, lakewoods, 28 spline axles, and factory gm posi unit from Z28. Sounds like a simple combo. Have any input on this? I read somewhere that someone makes a ready to bolt in 9\" housing for S trucks. Anyone got any info on this? dont leave me hanging



Thanks

Ray

[rudedogg]

slide-a-links

cal-tracks

ladder bars

4-link

many people use these set ups and as far as them working,they all do depending on the way your truck is set up for the money the cal-tracs or the slide-a-links are great but more stability with speed and et you will need the bars http://www.s10v8.com/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif

[grimpuppy]

Ford 9\", 4:11 gears, full spool, 1 spring removed form rear leafs, old cheapie slapper bars, moroso trick front springs, CE drag shocks front and back, 28 x 10.5 mickey et streets. 1.63 60 fts with 383 motor launch at 3000 on the trans brake. Heres a pic of the rear.Rear end (http://s10v8.com/members/grimpuppy/rear.JPG)

[QuickV8s10]

That has to be a hell of a 331 to be running that kind of time or is a short track? i am running 1.72 60ft and 7.5 at 89 mph and 1.69 60ft and 6.87 at 92mph on 150 shot. My truck dead hooks every time and squats and keeps the nose up have way down the track i put some cheap fluid shocks on the front and some good shocks on the back and took my over load spring out and it does the job fine for me. I dont have and bars just the stock rear end with 3.42 factory posi 28X10.5 slicks with a 3000 stall. It just a truck its hard to get a good 60ft out of a truck. Some of my friend went from a 3.42 to 4.10 and did not change there 60ft very little and only made a tenth different and the end of the track. a stck rear end want keep taking a beating mine is starting to get some slack in it so it on it way out along with most of all the other stuff that in the truck.. I got to made way for my new project on my truck i hope next year i will be done with it. It should run mid 5\'s new motor is a 1200hp 383!! and going with a 200 meter trans so i can still drive it on the street. I guess you are think 1200hp 383?? it a twin turbo motor and yes it will make 1200hp just got done help a friend build one for his car and he had it dyno tuned and i was there to see the 1200hp on the dyno..

[Skeeter74]

I built a complete 9 inch for around $1100. I used a junkyard housing had narrowed, bought a set Moser axles and rebuilt the factory drum brakes. I bought a center section from a place called Muscle motorsports that specialize in selling used nascar equipment. 3.90 gears with a detroit locker proffessionaly set set up for $550. I havent tried it yet. I will let ya\'ll know when I do.

[Scotty_S-15]

Ray, you keep mentioning slapper bars, but seems most \"serious\" short timers with leafs are using either Cal-Tracs or Slide-A-Links, as others have mentioned.

[grimpuppy]

On 2005-03-08 09:14, Scotty_S-15 wrote:

Ray, you keep mentioning slapper bars, but seems most \"serious\" short timers with leafs are using either Cal-Tracs or Slide-A-Links, as others have mentioned.

Anyone tried both? Just curious if Cal-tracs or slide-a-links work better or are the same. I will probably switch to one of the 2 this summer.

[Knanthrup]

I bought a Ford 8.8 out of a junkyard complete with 3.73 gears and posi for $175. It\'s almost a direct bolt in, I\'m hoping to grab some good 60fters with it. Right now I\'m just running slapper bars but they worked great with my old setup

[rayL]

\"That has to be a hell of a 331 to be running that kind of time\"



My combo is:

010 block .060, callies 3.250\" crank, crower 6.125 rods, 550ish solid cam, dart pro 1 215 heads, JE flat top nitrous pistons, victor jr, demon 750, 1 3/4 headers, dynomax 3\" bullets, is a true 10.8:1 motor on Chevron 93 octane. Im thinking with some tuning and gears it will go in the 6s. Then its time for some spray.

[MARKYMARK]

you must be running a 2500-3000 stahl convertor. most guys running below 1.5 60 foot times are running 4500 or higher.i haven\'t finished my present jimmy #4 , but it has a 5000 coan convertor. can\'t wait to hit the track

[rayL]

my convertor is supposed to be a 4k but i can get about 3k out of on the footbrake and flash about 3700. Im hoping it will loosen up some.



thanks

Ray

[jameskirk1]

Depending on what RPM you launch vs. your converter, you could play with the pump shot in the carb some to fine tune what you can...I know I picked up around a full .10 by tuning mine...Also play around with your timing; e.g. more initial with a limit bushing or something to keep your total advance in the sweet spot...just some more stuff to think about, 60\' times aren\'t ALL about tire/suspenion, but it sure helps! http://www.s10v8.com/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif

[rayL]

Timing is something im a lil worried about messing with right now. After about 3 runs i pulled a couple plugs and they were a very very light tan almost white. Timing is at 36* now with full advance around 2800( lightest springs in MSD distributor). Im thinking i would lean out if i went up on timing anymore. Right now the carb has 75 fronts, 83 rear. Ive been thinking of going 77, 85 and see if it picks up any and maybe i could bump the timing up a lil then. What yall think??



Thanks

Ray

[wild85]

As Scottys15 will say, running lean will make you faster.

[rayL]

lean also melts parts. my pockets are shallow so i gotta save my parts.

[rayL]

[JAMCAR223]

ANYONE MENTION PINION ANGLE HERE?

RAY- SPRAY THAT PUPPY!!!!

[rayL]

ahhh whats the stock pinion angle and how bad do we think this thing is wrapping up?? as far as spraying i have a wilson 100-250 setup begging me, once i get this rear end/ motor tuning stuff over with its on like a chicken bone. anyone wanna make some 150 shot predictions??



Thanks Ray

[wild85]

i mean a little lean, like you have now, if you richen it, you may go slower, but its worth a try.

[Scotty_S-15]

On 2005-03-08 20:52, wild85 wrote:

As Scottys15 will say, running lean will make you faster.





On 2005-03-08 21:02, rayL wrote:

lean also melts parts. my pockets are shallow so i gotta save my parts.



Yeah, that\'s true about lean, on both parts! A fine line for sure. For that reason, I like my O2 meter... right up on the pillar, in my face.

[rayL]

On 2005-03-08 21:41, Scotty_S-15 wrote:

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On 2005-03-08 20:52, wild85 wrote:

As Scottys15 will say, running lean will make you faster.

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On 2005-03-08 21:02, rayL wrote:

lean also melts parts. my pockets are shallow so i gotta save my parts.

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Yeah, that\'s true about lean, on both parts! A fine line for sure. For that reason, I like my O2 meter... right up on the pillar, in my face.





I wanna fatten it a lil so i can go up on timing....its all trial and error i reckon

[rayL]

heres some pics of the black turd fellas critique easy lol



http://www.dragtruk.com/ENTRIES/54NPJA00H672.html?

[grimpuppy]

Love the paint job. Black and silver really does it for me. Thats what I want to paint the tow rig this spring. The luggage rack is a nice touch http://www.s10v8.com/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif

[Scotty_S-15]

Glad you posted that pic.... next time I\'m driving thru MS I\'ll make sure not to square off with THAT at a traffic light! http://www.s10v8.com/images/smilies/icon_razz.gif I love sleepers, and that looks like a killer.

[ZZ4Blazer]

On 2005-03-08 21:20, rayL wrote:

ahhh whats the stock pinion angle and how bad do we think this thing is wrapping up??

Thanks Ray





My stock 94 s10 angle was +5 degree\'s



Id also recommend Caltracs. I know plenty of guys in the high 1.7-1.8 range with mild 4.3\'s, and stiff lowered suspension.

[rayL]

yea im just fishing for ideas here. i called calvert racing today and talked to them. they make a monoleaf setup to go with the caltracs that sounded real tempting. I warrantied a factory eaton posi unit from an extreme today at work also http://www.s10v8.com/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif. im gonna mess around and warranty me some 28 spline axles and try to locate some 4.10s or 4.30s here shortly. Im hoping this setup alone will get me in the 6s. i have some wedges to get that pinion angle down some and gonna go up on tire pressure to she starts hopping and let her rip. not sure when all this is gonna come together but i think it should be interesting. If i start breaking parts i have 8.5 out of my old nova thats spooled w/ mark williams 31 spline axles waiting to be cut. we shall just see.



Thanks

Ray

[jimmya]

rayL, are you trying to stay away from ladder bars, etc? my small block s-10 has ladder-links w/coil-overs, and with the last 406 on 28x10.5 slicks short times were 1.40\'s on motor, 1.29-1.30 on spray (225). it ran 6.70\'s-80\'s on motor and high 5\'s to low 6.00\'s on nitrous.

[rayL]

On 2005-03-12 10:48, jimmya wrote:

rayL, are you trying to stay away from ladder bars, etc? my small block s-10 has ladder-links w/coil-overs, and with the last 406 on 28x10.5 slicks short times were 1.40\'s on motor, 1.29-1.30 on spray (225). it ran 6.70\'s-80\'s on motor and high 5\'s to low 6.00\'s on nitrous.





In short yes. This is a street truck that i would like to run in some easy street races at my local track. In order to do that has to be stock suspension, stock frame rails, 10.5 tire, and so on. I have another 10 truck thats gonna get the full treatment but will stay on 10.5s.



Thanks

Ray

[jimmya]

cool. the truck i am talking about has the stock frame rails,i just boxed them in for tire clearance, I built it for hot street racing. thinking about selling it because im building the blown bbc 1995 ext cab s-10. i sure love small tire racing, though. also i have seen a stock suspension s-10 with a big block run like 5.98 in the 1/8th on motor! it can be done. ive been looking for a blazer for a 10.5w outlaw class. i think they look cool as drag cars.

[eigthmile]

Hi. I,m new here. Just wanting to try and see if I can help Ray with his problem. Try a set of south side machine lift bars. They will lift the chassis eliminating any wasted time with squat. Try and preload the right rear leaving the opposite side unloaded. I have an 83 s10 385 sbc 10.1 compression and 3.73 gears 26x10.5 et streets cutting 1.50-1.53 running 7.09-7.14 1/8 mile at 96.5 mph. I have a cheap jegs brand 3000 converter which I only hold it at 1700 then flash it for my best 60,s. This is with a 7.5 rearend z28 slp carrier and 28 spline axles. Look at getting some front end travel limiters they will also greatly reduce your 60,s. Get back with me and I,ll get you some pic,s of my lift bars and help you as much as possible.

Thanks

brad

[wagonboy]

Post the pictures on here, I\'d too love to see the set up you have. Also can you explain a little more about the front end travel limiters?

[eigthmile]

I will try and get the pictures on here later on this evening. My front end limiters thread in to my upper control arms allowing me to adjust the amount of front end rise. You can get these through jegs or summit. I keep my front end rise at a minimum to allow for more forward movement instead of upward motion.

[BrickTop]

hey ray, try this thread, it might have some info on what you\'re looking for. search for this: \"is anyone on here running sub 1.6 60 fts?\" it has some good info about suspension setups and cutting good 60\'s. there are people on here cutting great 60 fts with relatively stock susp. the other things i wanted to say were, why did you destroke the 350? i like the long rods, but with those big heads, i would think that you really need some more gear. that motor will want to turn some serious rpm, with a short stroke like that, and those big intake ports, i would put peak power (depending on the cam duration) somewhere between 6900 and 7400. a motor like that will LOVE low gears. if you put some 4.56\'s or even lower, i bet it would 60ft good AND drop some serious time in the 1/8th. especially in the 1/8th. is it a roller cam or solid flat tappet.

[rayL]

I went with the short stroke basically cause i had the crank already. Future plans are on a big inch small block but for now ima run this lil motor for fun. Since this thread started i have went to 4.56s, still no slapper bars though. The cam is a solid flat tappet. Ran the truck this past friday for the second time, track was packed and people kept breaking only got one run in.. the 60ft dropped to a 1.69 but then started spinning http://www.s10v8.com/images/smilies/icon_confused.gif ..managed to get a 7.20 @92 out that pass. Im going to try some Lakewood slapper bars before i run again and see how much that helps..I feel the truck has the power to pull 1.5 short times but needs a lil suspension tuning.



Thanks

Ray

[BrickTop]

well, good luck with the motor ray, its always interesting to see how motors with different bore/strokes run. i\'m about to begin building another small block for my truck, and i don\'t know if i\'m going to do a 383 or a 350, i know that i SHOULD build a 383, no reason to give up inches in my opinion, but i think it would be pretty cool to go out and whup up on some people who have big inch motors with my little 350. on the other hand...........a 383 built right would probably whup up on my little 350. and with good heads and a big enough cam, i should be able to turn plenty of rpm with the 383 anyway. i want to shift at 7500 or a little higher, so the 383 will take more heads and cam to get me where i want to be than it would with the 350, but i will probably go faster so i\'ll probably go for the inches. but i still don\'t know, there\'s no need for low rpm torque with an s10........hmm. so anyway, i think 7.2 is pretty fast in the 1/8th, i\'d say get the susp worked out, and i would expect you to go pretty fast. talk to fastws23 if he\'s still on here too, he has a lot of experience with drag racing, and has a pretty fast truck, he would probably have some good info for you on hooking up. lata!

[hairdryer]

go here to see what a stock suspension truck can do with caltracs. 1.31 60ft



it broke loose when I went to high gear, dew on the track.



http://realdragracing.com/videos/misc/greggettingloose.wmv

[MARKYMARK]

rayl are you leaving on some type of two-step or just foot break and holding it back. and are you running power valves or are they blocked off.

[rayL]

hairdryer, damn that things getting out of dodge in a hurry! i know my lil just flat out dont have the power to pull 1.3 60s but i see trucks similar to yours running similar 60s on stock suspension and a traction aid.



markymark, im footbraking it. primary power valve is a 6.5 and secondary is plugged.



For an update ran the truck tonight only got 3 passes on it and the track wasnt great but not bad..got a best 60 of 1.63 and ran a 7.03. only changes is lakewoods and 4.56 gears on factory 28 spline posi. Now if i can just learn to tune the motor it might end being pretty peppy..heh

[fastedd]

i am pulling 159-163 on a good day w/29.5X10(7-8# cold) m/t, slapper bars on springs w/ 411 10bolt. running a glide & flashing a 4600 stall w/ a 383. am going to try my 28\" m/t streets to lower my 60ft times. interesting thought about the front end limiter. anybody else had success with trying that?

[rayL]

Yea im not sure about the front end limiters and if i understand that concept fully. I want mine to pull the front tires a lil and get all that weight going to the back. I guess if it was putting the bumper towards the moon i could see the limiters being a help but not now. Does anybody run limiters.

[eigthmile]

Ray,The concept of the limiters is to limit the amount of front end travel. They are a very nice tuning aid once you get it to bite. You can adjust for a slick or hard biting track. I have them and allow the drivers front to rise 3/4 inch more than passenger.

[rayL]

OK correct me if im wrong. If you limit the front end travel then weight isnt going to transfer as well right? kinda like standing on a rope your trying to pick up..



thanks

ray

[eigthmile]

Ray, you\'re exactly right. The point being is to eliminate wasted motion. This will come in handy once you get the truck to hook.